To think money ends poverty- not education, not mindset, not budgeting advice, just actual money?

[WildHazelCritic]

I keep seeing discussions about “breaking the poverty cycle” or helping people escape hardship and the solutions are always long-term or conditional: learn to budget, go back to school, change your mindset. But poverty is often just not having enough money. And people giving money - whether through better wages, benefits, or direct support, would make the biggest difference. AIBU to think we over complicate it because people are uncomfortable with the idea of redistribution or just giving people what they need?

For some people who struggle to manage money no amount would be enough so it is not just giving them money which will drag them out of poverty. They need to learn to manage it too.

Education did it for me , l managed to get my OLevels which opened up the door for me to do my Nurse training.
My sister was able to do her AAT because she went to night school and got her A level maths which enabled her to do her accountancy .
So it's education that has worked for my family .

Only in the very short term without education etc.

in that state-of-the -nation novel from 1905, Howard’s End, Mr Wilkins is asked almost this exact question and he replies”If you shared out all the money in the country equally between all adults, in 40 years’ time, some people would have an increased amount and some would have nothing again”. It’s human nature.

Well it’s fairly obviously why they do and are more obese. What little money they do have they want to spend it on something they enjoy. But ignoring the fact that rich prior smoke is a bit naive.

Hard disagree. Money isn’t a replacement for learning how to save and budget.

I have personal experience of watching many people from families that are low income go on to earn higher salaries than their parents but struggle with money as they have never learnt how to manage money.

Uni students first week of loans arriving is a great illustration of this en masse.

It's also about looking right and 'fitting in'. If you are very skinny/ obese with the grey skin pallour of poverty, smoking and a crappy diet with missing/ bad teeth, then no amount of money will get you accepted by anyone except the people who look just like you. You look poor and it's likely you will always look poor no matter how much money anyone throws at you

Teaching a man to fish is only any good if he can then afford a fishing rod. The OP is right that sometimes straight up money is what's needed. Sometimes a cash injection would really help someone dig themself out of a hole. People who have never struggled don't understand that finding a tenner in the street feels like a miracle when you're utterly broke. Budgeting, education etc can only go so far.

Its down to attitude.

I'm well educated, I have a degree, but thats not where I make a living.

I reopened a family business 3 years ago that requires no qualifications just a good business head and yes, I'm doing well.

In two years I've gone from being on the brink of being homeless (shitty landlord and stuck in a cycle of expensive rentals) to owning our own house, holidays abroad and a couple of decent classic cars on the drive as well as our daily drivers.

I work hard, damned hard, and I earn my living, so me and my family can reap the benefits.

Working in healthcare it’s openly known that the majority of people with severe alcohol dependence are those that also work in healthcare, the legal profession and the police/forces. You see it all the time, very easy to understand it’s a coping mechanism.

But how to you get money?

Good job, education, budgeting?

Education needs to lead to financial opportunity in order to get someone out of poverty. Even though I was highly educated, compared to my peers I paid a huge poverty penalty - higher loans so less money from my income to spend/save, having to work to fund education so less time to study and excel, no support so having to be very independent vs those that had a parental safety net, advice and guidance. Expensive loans for postgrad when all those around me were being 100% bankrolled by their parents. No bank of mum and dad for a house, wedding etc. Despite working my absolute nuts off and being successful, I cannot even remotely catch up and I was lucky to end up in a high paying job.

I’m not poor now but I will never be rich! I’m certainly not complaining but it’s certainly not hard work that was the difference between my wealthy friends and I!

I have different perspectives on this..
I was born into council estate, Margaret Thatcher, not a pot to pee in poverty. I was also dragged up by a neglectful piece of shit who went out of her way to make sure I failed.
I had my son at 20.. Single, no family support and a minimum wage job. The big difference was though that I loved and cared about my sons future, he was always expected to do well.. By his teenage years he had a completely different outlook on life/money/future to the one i had, I was strict, really strict on him doing well at school. He is 23 and is qualified as an electrician, he earns a decent salary and will have a middle class income. (As do I now thanks to my husband)
My husbands daughter is 15 and has been born into a completely different world, she’ll inherit millions and she probably has around £200’000 waiting in an account that she’ll get given at 21 (her mum is loaded) She is a lovely girl who I think will want to do well and work hard but She’s been born into extreme privilege and won’t ever have to work as hard as my son and unless I win the lottery will always be richer.

Money is only a plaster. The reactive not proactive answer. Where would it end?

I grew up in poverty, in an area of extreme poverty and I would honestly say that the majority of people I grew up around, if given extra money, would have just pissed it up the wall. Just having extra money isn’t enough if you aren’t taught how to be responsible with it.

Low levels of education, in my experience, leads to poverty. I don’t mean that everyone should have a PhD and that going to university makes you rich, but there are people who don’t even possess the most basic common sense and who actively encourage their children to shun education. I’ve seen this, I’ve been part of this. The solution is education, not necessarily in terms of qualifications but in terms of mindset.

Not everyone living in poverty is a hard working sort just trying to get by and everything would be solved with just a little bit extra money. There are areas with strongly embedded generational unemployment and frankly they don’t need money thrown at them.

Agree some rich people smoke but given it is an expensive you would expect the proportion of higher decile earners who smoke to be higher, but is is much lower, the lower decile earners are more than twice as likely to be smokers. This is at a statistical level. I did some an analytics for a company once and we saw that if low income families received a lump sum (like the winter fuel bonuses that were given out a few years ago) they were more likely to spend it takeaway rather than saving for the expected bill. This is just human behaviour living hand to mouth but giving people more money with actual the skills to manage it doesn't solve the problem. Not everyone but on balance that was the behavior see.

I think it’s mostly not true, I’m from an immigrant background, everyone in my family is fine because of a few basic rules a) finish school and either do an apprenticeship or go to uni b) get a job, any job but not working full time is not an option c) kids after marriage and after you have bought a home (doesn’t have to be fancy d) be law abiding.

The reality is buying a home is really difficult these days but you can do the rest of it.

https://fraserofallander.org/implications-of-hours-worked-for-poverty-and-inequality/

I found this interesting, there was a poster a few months back who between her and her boyfriend only worked something like 14 hours.

I think there is an increasing desire to be kind to people which in theory is good but often it involves absolving people for any responsibility for themselves and their families.

It’s education. Money may help but only in the short term. Only education has long term benefits that transcend generations.

I would also say you can have a difficult start but you can dig yourself out but it takes sustained effort and it’s hard, we don’t always start on a level playing field but you can end up better than where you started, it may not be amazing but you set your kids up for more. You may end up must above the poverty line rather than under it but you can massively improve your own children’s future.

Work & choices!

I know a few people who've had a lot of money provided to them, one through a large insurance settlement, another an inheritance,and have still wound up poor.

However - at the moment there are two many jobs at pay levels that don't allow two working adults to live a decent family life - affording house for 1-2 kids, healthy food, a simple annual camping holiday etc. This is a big big issue.

There is a reason why salaried workers carry more than their share of tax burdens and why aged care is so costly. It does not benefit the rich nor business for working classes to be able to transfer generational wealth. Whenever the working classes seem to be getting too comfy, interest rates are hoiked to a level they need to struggle again. If working classes were able to accumulate and retain wealth, then who would do the work for the rich people? I've attached the breakdown of Australia's taxes. It's criminal that multiple billion dollar companies contribute less in tax revenue than workers.

Nope. Many indigenous Australians live in communities where they get huge sums of money as mining royalties. It’s done nothing to help thought communities. They still have huge rates of domestic violence, child abuse, alcohol abuse and poverty.

Money isn’t enough for some.

this article is very interesting on how many inheritances and lottery wins are squandered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/worklife/article/20181024-you-can-win-a-billion-and-go-bankrupt

I think this idea that you can ask fewer and fewer people to subsidise more and more people is ripe for collapse. It’s not even about whether it’s the nice, right or kind thing to do. It simply becomes so unaffordable that the whole system collapses under the weight of itself and we find out the hard way when a government has to slash and burn it’s way through it’s debt.

No giving money in benefits as handouts makes the whole nation braindead beggars. As is the case with this country now.

Give the man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

@Jennps but as I said, that only applies if he has access to a fishing rod. Which requires cash either directly to him or to a scheme to supply fishing rods. Money isn't everything but sometimes lack of it is the problem.