To think money ends poverty- not education, not mindset, not budgeting advice, just actual money?

[WildHazelCritic]

I keep seeing discussions about “breaking the poverty cycle” or helping people escape hardship and the solutions are always long-term or conditional: learn to budget, go back to school, change your mindset. But poverty is often just not having enough money. And people giving money - whether through better wages, benefits, or direct support, would make the biggest difference. AIBU to think we over complicate it because people are uncomfortable with the idea of redistribution or just giving people what they need?

I don't see how education is the way out of poverty when I see so many people with postgraduate degrees in low-paid work. I was working in a part-time minimum job until recently. Roughly half of the people there had multiple degrees or good professional qualifications. What they also had were health problems, disabilities or caring responsibilities, or quite often more than one of those things. And even once things improved from some of them, they were stuck with old qualifications and a CV of low paid unskilled work which is a very poor stepping stone to a well paid job.

You need an education but an education won't necessarily get you out of poverty these days.

You can give an uneducated person money but how will they know how to spend it wisely and budget if they haven’t been taught that? Plenty of rich uneducated people can’t manage their money properly, how many times has Trump been bankrupt and had failed businesses? Not all people in poverty are poor due to lack of education, it’s the system that failed them. Just like not all rich people are educated.

Roughly half of the people there had multiple degrees or good professional qualifications. What they also had were health problems, disabilities or caring responsibilities, or quite often more than one of those things.

I think too the rate that we’re seeing professionally qualified teachers, nurses and social workers leave their professions due to intolerable working conditions needs to be considered. It’s not just about unemployment but under employment particularly given the associated high vacancy rates in these occupations.

Come to think of it, the people in my workplace who were able to move into good jobs were able to do so due to financial support from someone else - a spouse, parents, an inheritance, which have them the resources to upskill, to move to somewhere with more jobs, to pay for childcare/carers, to buy a car or a computer, to volunteer to gain new skills, to pay from private healthcare etc. So money was what made the difference.

There was a recent thread along the same lines of a windfall. Refreshingly there were a lot of good suggestions. The last post I saw by the OP is they were going to do surface level home improvements (carpet, paint, etc.) that they would never have the chance to do again. Not the worst thing but not great long term either.

I stopped watching the thread after that.

This.

I agree with PP saying ‘teach a man to fish’.

There’s a chance that giving people in poverty money may only be a short-term sticking plaster.

Exactly, it’s the system that failed them. That’s why giving people resources first (like money, housing, stability) gives them a real foundation. Financial education helps, sure, but it doesn’t work if people don’t have anything to work with. And as you said, plenty of rich people are bad with money too, they just have a cushion when they mess up. People in poverty rarely get that luxury.

I grew up in poverty in a single parent household. I benefited from having me university fees paid for me and a full maintenance grant in the 90's. Without this I would never have gone to University and would likely still be in poverty. Education absolutely can help. As a teacher it frustrates me when parents won't support their child's education.

The thing is poverty isn't only lack of money -- although that's the most obvious output. It's about lack of opportunity, lack of hope, lack of self-belief and lack of agency.

It's true that only money will alleviate people's most pressing needs, which is why the benefits system exists. But as PPs have pointed out getting out of poverty long-term requires a longer-term gameplan.

It's partly about creating a mindset that enables money to multiply itself. Getting some money is by definition time limited. Whether you're picking up a benefit check or getting an inheritance, that money will only last so long. Becoming more prosperous over the long term requires a strategy to make sure that money continues to flow in. If you want to turn that money into new money, you need opportunity, a plan and you need and know-how.

It's also about the self-discipline and self-belief to convince yourself that its worth putting the work in to earn more money. People from multi-generational poverty, understandably, struggle to believe that there's anything better for them because they've never experienced it. So the temptation to spend what they earn and to fail to plan for the future is an entirely rational response to getting money. The idea of putting money aside for a rainy day or of investing in a course to improve your qualifications seems futile and self-aggrandising if no one in your family or community has ever done this before.

The only consistent way out of this is education. That doesn't necessarily mean an MBA from Harvard, it can mean an apprenticeship or a night class. But there has to be something to convince people that there's a way out.

Benefits manage poverty

Education and money help you escape poverty

I get what you’re saying about the intolerable working conditions but I should say at the minute there is a freeze on nursing jobs, many soon to be qualified nurses can’t get jobs. These are students who have worked free for 2300 hours over the three year, have done A’levels to be even able to start the course, worked hard to pass their exams, paid nearly £30,000 in tuition fees, now can’t get a job despite the government saying they needed 50,000 nurses just to balance out the patient staff ratio.

And you need poverty to be managed day by day to allow you to access education and gain money if you’re going to escape poverty.

Thank you. This is exactly right.

People who have never experienced real poverty in the 21st century trot out shit like 'teach a man to fish' or 'mums used to be able to stretch a ham joint 20 days to feed 300 kids'.

Life is very precarious for a lot of people today on low/no incomes and cash is what they need day to day. Not food parcels, budgeting courses or night classes. People in employment in the UK are skipping meals in their millions to feed their kids ffs. The cost of housing and shit, insecure work has changed the face of poverty.

YABU.

Education lasts, training lasts, skills last. Cash handouts do not.

I come from a FSM family. I was given the chance of a grammar school education, the opportunity to take a business degree. The govt of the day invested in me. They didn't give me money but they paid for my training. I've not needed any other help and have paid back their investment, being a net contributor for the last 40 years.

We need to give people opportunities. I'd rather see low cost child care so parents can work. A return to free or very low cost adult education and night school. Micro-business lines of credit to help people start up on their own.

OP what you are describing is that money would temporarily alleviate the poverty but as PP have noted it doesn't solve it
Poverty has many causes but they include low capacity for work (which education can help), people having more children than they can afford (education often helps with this, when you improve education a side effect is often women choosing to have fewer children), low motivation to work (education and raising aspiration can help this), low wages (education and qualifications can help this), unrealistic lifestyle expectations/poor budgeting (education can help this). Education is much better way of tackling some of the root causes of poverty.

Education underpins budgeting and income.

For a lot of people, absolutely. I think there's a misconception that people living in poverty are uneducated, lacking in motivation or role models, never been shown a 'better way' and so forth. When in reality one of the biggest causes of poverty is ill health and disability, which are no respecters of a person's academic qualifications, and often lead to a level of income its impossible to stretch regardless of budgeting skills.

I escaped poverty through education and my children no longer needing childcare. WFH also helped with school runs.

I ended up in poverty due to relationship breakdown and Ex's refusal to pay any child maintenance. I worked so had in work benefits top ups.

For me it would have made a big difference to have better childcare options (I had to wait until they were old enough not to need childcare as there wasn't any affordable options available, more funds to access the education (travel was not subsidised), and further education is not set up for single parents with dependents - I had to get to lectures for 9am with a 2 hour commute which clashed with school runs.

Cash brings options to choose, agency to explore those options but the options need to be accessible in other ways too. No point giving cash for education if you do not have the wider support to access it.

This exactly. The Scottish government constantly boast of lifting kids out of poverty but indexes like the educational attainment gap and health gap between rich and poor neighbourhoods are constantly widening. Just because those in poverty have more money doesn’t mean their lives and prospects are any less rubbish.

What’s the answer? Putting the money into things like sure start again instead of just handing out cash. Same with disability benefits. Provide things through the NHS instead of giving people money to buy therapy privately (or not bother and use it for day to day living).

Giving people cash is an easy answer to a hard question, and in most cases is the wrong answer.

It’s education for many people.
But it can’t be education for everyone.
Because we will always need people to take menial jobs that will never be well paid.
And if menial jobs did became well paid… that would just lead to inflation and they would become poor again.

The REAL answer to poverty is decent public services.

In a country with good universal healthcare, dentistry, public transport, education and infrastructure like libraries, youth groups and sports centres, quality of life is increased for everyone, and even those least well off retain their dignity, energy to work, hope for the future, and investment and pride in their community.

Money's necessary yes, but I'd class money spent on stuff like universal childcare and social housing as being more important than paying it to individuals (but it's very complex).

Things like abolishing the EMA and Sure Start were like stamping on the fingers of those trying to better themselves.

I come from a FSM family. I was given the chance of a grammar school education, the opportunity to take a business degree. The govt of the day invested in me. They didn't give me money but they paid for my training. I've not needed any other help and have paid back their investment, being a net contributor for the last 40 years.

They did give you money though, they helped feed you as a child, improving your chances of being able to access a grammar school education. They financially supported your choice to access higher education - you didn’t leave with tens of thousands in student debt to be paid back and finances weren’t a barrier to you completing your education.

Money and financial support comes in many different forms, when you’re not even living hand to mouth, the one thing that will improve your life chances if having more money available to you. The best way to stop someone getting to where they aren’t even living hand to mouth is access to opportunities, which might include education but just as likely might be other types of support.

There's no doubt for some people more money would be the answer however that will be a minority. There is very definitely an underclass who are raised generation upon generation who don't see a value in bettering themselves. You could provide more money but it will always be less than they think they deserve. Long term education, encouraging aspirations in children from a young age would probably help, it wouldn't completely negate upbringing but would help.