To think that primary schools are sending a really shitty message to well behaved kids

[CathyBlowsBubbles]

DD (10) is not as academic as either her older sister or her older brother (14&11). She’s a lovely child who isn’t struggling but is bang average. She’s never in trouble and tries her best.

All year, she’s been telling me how she was going to work really hard to get a HT’s award given every other month as she’s never got one. (Older sibs both got lots over the course of their primary school) She’s come home tonight in tears which is so rare for her. Naughty kid in her class got it for ‘making an improved effort to listen in class. Now I know that it’s about equity and that he should be rewarded for improving BUT, where’s her reward for calmly and quietly working her socks off all year? Why is that NEVER, EVER rewarded??? How come her older sibs were forever being rewarded for being super high achievers when it all came so easily to them yet she is never recognised.

She is in a class with a high proportion of kids with behavioural issues and right from Infants, any tiny weekly improvement has been seized on and rewarded. Doesn’t change anything. Behaviour is still poor. Kids are still hurting other kids and disrupting lessons. All TA attention and support is given to those kids too to enable the teacher to teach. How is that fair? How is it fair that the TA supports that group and the teacher ‘stretches’ the high achievers twice a week but the cohort in the middle (apart from one who’s disruptive) are just left to get on with it.

Why don’t they ever even say to us, ‘look, the class is too big, the teacher is frazzled, the TA is struggling too, your kid is no trouble so they just need to suck it up!’ They never say that. They never say, ‘we know this child has received rewards frequently over the part 6yrs without impact but we still need to try despite how demotivating it is to kids who try all year and get nothing in return.’ The system is completely broken when kids like my youngest child gets to the end of Y5 effectively unnoticed. My eldest was on their G&T register and somehow she didn’t go unnoticed! 🤨 I feel so angry on DD’s behalf. She’s never going to get the academic accolades that the older two get. AIBU to ask why can’t she be recognised for just being a good kid?

And don't get me started on the Dojo points at my daughter's school, there's 16 in her class, each week they give out 2 certificates for Dojo winners so each child should get a few certificates each. My daughter has had it once all year despite the fact she's never put a foot wrong and tries really hard in all of her work, something the teacher was keen to tell me at parents evening but for some reason doesn't reward her in class.

Well behaved girls being sat next to troublemakers has been an ongoing problem in my daughter's school as well. We had to raise it with the school because she came home saying she was being disrupted from her work and was worried about getting in trouble, we raised it and the teacher said 'yes I had noticed she wasn't finishing her work'. She hadn't even questioned why that might be, hadn't spoken to my daughter about, just 'noticed' it. So twice we had to contact the school - both times their answer was to move her to a different seat but the second time we did ask why she was being moved when she wasn't the problem. God I do appreciate that schools and teachers are in a very difficult place but sometimes there doesn't seem to be any common sense. These quiet average children moved from pillar to post, buffering other children, trying to just get on with things.

But the teachers really don't know how hard it is for some of the quiet kids to stay quiet, I was a well behaved child at school and it took a monumental effort on my part and I would often explode in anger or tears after school, it was the same story for one of my kids at primary, she held it together all day and would explode at home. So it can be hard for all kids, not just those who do act out.

My well behaved DD was also ignored and in Y6 put on a table with some children who had persistent behaviour issues. One day their table was removed and they were made to sit at the back of the class on a crash mat - for 3 days - until I found out. Couldn’t see the board and nothing to lean on to write. This was 4 years ago, not in the 1950’s.

That teacher received an email. They phoned me attempting to justify it with the most nonsense explanation I’ve ever heard to justify an entirely ridiculous punishment (even for those misbehaving). He then pulled my DD to one side to tell her off she’d ’told her mum’ and he had to deal with me complaining. Too right I did - little did he know how much it was going to escalate after that stunt.

I’m a school governor (different school) and have enormous respect for teachers. Yet, the system is broken. We hear how lesson plans are designed for every level of capability in the class, yet they are so stretched there is often a failure to bother to do the same for rewards and recognition - which is infinitely easier to achieve.

Sorry your DD had to learn this lesson at such a young age like so many.

My son did have a word. Younger child who was challenging was always coming home with stickers as a bribe really. When he did mature and shape up the stickers stopped. Son told the head the whole system was back to front because the older child who was always good rarely got a sticker unless he came top in class while his little brother just had to put his bum in a seat for a whole lesson, he came home with four stickers one day. 🙄

Similar here with DS7 (age, not number of child!). Pretty average academically, pretty quiet and just gets his head down. Just goes really unnoticed. As has been said, all the attention is on the extroverted and/or high-achievers or those with SEN and behavioural difficulties.

The school have both star and reader of the week awards, so there's obviously enough weeks for everyone in the class to get (at least) one. He was very near the end of the list for getting both and all the star of the week one said it was for was "upholding the school's values". His teacher couldn't have found something more personal that he'd achieved that week?!

He's also never been cherry-picked for any of the extra-curricular enrichment stuff that a handful of kids from each class get to do each time, like police cadets, special sports coaching, science gala, visiting another school for athletics, etc.

We obviously give him lots of praise at home, but sometimes they do need some external validation. I know it's not the same, but what I've tried to do is find his 'thing' outside of school. He does a few clubs, eg Beavers, but after noticing an interest/aptitude in climbing, have signed him up for bouldering which he loves and gets singled out for praise in 🙂

Sadly, this continues into the workplace. The drama llamas & loudmouths get all the praise & the consistently, hardworking go unnoticed. It’s crap.

This was how it was for me when I was in primary school about 20 years ago, sad that nothing has changed! I was quiet, always did work during lessons, didn't bully anybody or cause any trouble, did all my homework and got nothing for it. Naughty kids got certificates, gold stars, stickers, chocolate, mentioned in the weekly newsletter and always got picked for things. Was the same in secondary school too. I think the lack of praise in school laid the foundations of my miserable, pessimistic personality. Just kidding, I'm over it, but it's horrible that your DD is not getting the recognition she deserves. It sends out a really bad message that being average/good gets you nothing in return, and if you play up enough then you get attention and bribes!

This used to REALLY annoy me when mine were in primary. My daughter was a great worker,good marks, progress etc. Hardly ever got recognition. The naughty ones did. Booked my piss 🙄😞

It was the same with my DD at primary school, she got fed up with it. It’s a different story at secondary school though. They get positive behaviour points instead. last year in year 7 she got the most good behaviour points in her year and got a (not often given out), head teachers award. That was recognising her good behaviour over the year which is a much better way of rewarding the kids who just get on with it.

Are there special programmes for girls?

When I was at school the difficult children got taken out for a day on a school trip when ofsted were coming. The rest of us just had to attend classes as normal. Most of the group who had the fun day out were white (mostly white school) average to lower ability boys.

My ds, who found education very easy, once expressed disappointment that he wasn’t going to get all of the points/stars he had hoped for by the end of term. I asked him how he could get more. He said he would have to be naughty , then good again, but he just couldn’t be bothered with all that effort!

That sitting the good girls with the naughty boys carries on into adulthood as well. I had to go to speed school a while ago, arrived in the class and went to sit at a table with some other women. Got told by the instructor that I needed to sir with the men . Objected but was told the class works better with mixed male/female tables as the women keep the men in line (I kid you not!) I didn't dare to argue because I needed my pass certificate.

In my daughters secondary the kids who get no bad behaviour points for the year get a trip to a theme park, I think it's a great idea and both of mine have got to go every year. It really helps to motivate them throughout the year.

That's just grim isn't it 😒

Good lesson for life innit? People who work and are law abiding are currently finding that what they were told was the only path to wealth is actually the path to being a mug.

Yes it’s shit, at any age.

I agree with you and thought most schools found a way to ensure every kid gets some kind of award (my 4 yo son finally got an award for good listening just today). I would raise it (fairly gently) with the teachers.

But a flip side is that most teaching is aimed at the middle. Super smart kids can be left bored / twiddling their thumbs, while struggling kids get left behind

You sound like my mum who always had issues with anyone praising me ( also an academically bright dd1), in the end we grew up with me having mental health issues from all the pressure and expectations of doing excellent as I was naturally academic. No one is that naturally gifted, in the end we all need to work hard. In fact, parents neglect the naturally academic children and criticise them when they don’t do so well. Throughout my childhood, I tried my best to maintain my excellent academic performance. While my sister the had an average but more balanced and fun childhood, also extra praises from my mum. She turned out to be a more resilient adult and I became highly stressed with fear of failure.

Stop comparing your children. Being average is a positive thing.

This is poor on the school's part. In my kids' primary everyone gets an award at some point. My kid was the polite, well-behaved kid that met but did not exceed expectations, and she did get awards for her behaviour and was often praised for it.

Dd2 was almost completely invisible at primary school. To the point where despite good SATs results, they told the secondary school that she was middle-low ability. She never got star of the week. Never got merit marks (if you got a certain number you got a badge. She never got a badge). Never got chosen for anything. Her y4 teacher in particular never had a nice thing to say about her. Her behaviour was exemplary.

She is thriving at secondary school. Gets loads of recognition when things go well and pushes herself out of her comfort zone because she knows that her efforts will never not go unnoticed. And turns out she’s actually pretty academic.

Although school isn’t her favourite thing to do, every single night before school in Key Stage 2 we had “stomach ache”. The only time that has happened in secondary was when she was genuinely ill.

Op I feel so bad for your dd. I hope that one day, soon, she gets something.

Some bright spark at my work decided to do praise at work, with stickers and a list of names for employee appreciation month. We were encouraged to hand out stickers as much as possible, I must have handed out at least 10 (would have been more if we weren't hybrid). I received one. Just like school really.

I think this is a bit silly. Surely as her mum you teach her to try and strive and do well for its own sake. We've been there and got the t-shirt. State primary with 30 kids to class, many with additional needs is inherently unfair for all the dc but if she is at a good school, where she learns well, she is doing well. Not getting a reward is a big deal for these young kids and it's true it's always the same children getting star of the week or head teacher's award. The way to deal with this is to build your dc up, tell her in your family you take pride in working hard and striving for it's own sake and sometimes we get recognised but often we don't.

Your dd needs to stop working hard in order to get award, but to be proud of having a brilliant work ethic.

She'll soon be at secondary and it's a completely different experience. Much better. But it's up to you and your dd's dad to foster that go get resilience in her. You might also like to encourage her to be more confident and put herself out there. It takes time and I agree many good kids that do well but aren't the shining stars or have behaviour issues do get overlooked in primary. There is a lot of bias, teachers generally like outgoing kids and they are too busy to lean into those who are more introverted. You can help your dd though and not by telling school to give her an award.

I was this child and it pretty much ruined my work ethic, self-worth and work/life balance.

In Y6, every child got an award - "best actress", "best footballer", etc. I was forgotten. Everyone went onto stage one-by-one to collect their award when their name was called and then sat on benches on the stage when we all were supposed to sing a song we'd been practising. I was forgotten. No one called me up and I was too "polite" to say anything so they sang the whole song without me too. My mum, who had come to watch (with all the other parents) snuck off and told the teacher and they rushed out a certificate for me at the end of the day for "best speller". It was on my birthday as well. It was genuinely one of the worst things I've experienced in life. I know how precious that sounds but I've never felt so completely irrelevant.

I've pretty much worked non-stop in life to try and matter - and it's fucking exhausting. I'm so sorry for your DD, it's not fair.

This is a lovely, kind and generously honest message. I truly hope that you will be able to get over any fear of failure and enjoy your abilities and feel happy pursuing your interests. I know it can be hard being a high achiever and naturally able from a young age. My SIL had the very worst burn out for this reason. But she got over it with some support and is doing really well in her life now. You don't owe anyone your skills and certainly not perfection, just enjoy them and build on them for interesting and fulfilling experiences.

Ugg this has totally messed with my daughter’s sense of what is wrong and right. It pisses me off no end and is actually quite damaging for the well behaved ones that never get noticed.