To think that primary schools are sending a really shitty message to well behaved kids

[CathyBlowsBubbles]

DD (10) is not as academic as either her older sister or her older brother (14&11). She’s a lovely child who isn’t struggling but is bang average. She’s never in trouble and tries her best.

All year, she’s been telling me how she was going to work really hard to get a HT’s award given every other month as she’s never got one. (Older sibs both got lots over the course of their primary school) She’s come home tonight in tears which is so rare for her. Naughty kid in her class got it for ‘making an improved effort to listen in class. Now I know that it’s about equity and that he should be rewarded for improving BUT, where’s her reward for calmly and quietly working her socks off all year? Why is that NEVER, EVER rewarded??? How come her older sibs were forever being rewarded for being super high achievers when it all came so easily to them yet she is never recognised.

She is in a class with a high proportion of kids with behavioural issues and right from Infants, any tiny weekly improvement has been seized on and rewarded. Doesn’t change anything. Behaviour is still poor. Kids are still hurting other kids and disrupting lessons. All TA attention and support is given to those kids too to enable the teacher to teach. How is that fair? How is it fair that the TA supports that group and the teacher ‘stretches’ the high achievers twice a week but the cohort in the middle (apart from one who’s disruptive) are just left to get on with it.

Why don’t they ever even say to us, ‘look, the class is too big, the teacher is frazzled, the TA is struggling too, your kid is no trouble so they just need to suck it up!’ They never say that. They never say, ‘we know this child has received rewards frequently over the part 6yrs without impact but we still need to try despite how demotivating it is to kids who try all year and get nothing in return.’ The system is completely broken when kids like my youngest child gets to the end of Y5 effectively unnoticed. My eldest was on their G&T register and somehow she didn’t go unnoticed! 🤨 I feel so angry on DD’s behalf. She’s never going to get the academic accolades that the older two get. AIBU to ask why can’t she be recognised for just being a good kid?

Is this not how society works. Those that follow the rules, work hard and to their abilities, don't cause anyone else any issues and pay what they owe and what they have to, get no recognition what so ever.

I often wish we could be like the US and move academically able kids up a grade, and let those that struggle stay-back/ retake.

It would make it far easier for kids to be taught at and rewarded for the level their learning is at. And make teaching and learning easier for everyone.

It sounds like your daughter’s school needs more rewards in place than just certificates. In my classroom we use raffle tickets, team points, choosing time minutes, stickers, head teacher stickers (children sometimes take their books up to show the headteacher their work), golden time at the end of the week, extra playtime etc etc. These are all unlimited, so children can get multiple ‘rewards’ every week or even every day, rather than having to wait weeks or months for a certificate. Also means that the quiet, middle of the road children get loads of recognition, I would say the well behaved ones in my class do get more rewards than the ones with behaviour difficulties (of whom there are a few).

I agree though that the disruption from others is really unfair on the children who just keep their heads down and want to learn. Inclusion is great in theory, but schools aren’t actually equipped to deal with some of the behaviours and special needs that get thrown into the mix.

Secondary teacher here. Education is about learning. For most, they can do what is asked, follow instructions etc, which is great as that is the expected. Reward as you would like at home for this and continue to encourage a good work ethic as this will have positive benefits for your child and their life outcomes. Many schools have Dojo points/ stickers/ verbal praise/ house points/ good comments etc to recognise this. There are; however, students who really struggle with these things. And as you said this is about equity. So these students do need more support, more praise etc for minor wins/ progress etc. Then there are those who are naturally high flyers and academically brilliant again there needs to be recognition of going 'beyond'. Not every kid can win a certificate otherwise it makes the certificate meaningless. Schools try to encourage everyone to succeed and often it may be those students who find school difficult who get certificates. But surely that can't make you rage or be upset? Be glad that your child doesn't have these difficulties and/ or the statistical potential outcomes that many of these children, who struggle, will face as adults.

I doubt it will ever change. Same thing happened when I was in primary school 30 years ago. Although they did give out 100% and 99% attendance awards. Teachers quite frankly don’t care about average, they are great students who are well behaved but the smarter kids and ones with behaviour issues will always take the attention away from average. Nothing wrong in being average or well behaved, they probably make the best pupils but they are very easy to overlook and same goes on in the workplace.

So sad to read that from a teacher, tbh. What about the real sense of injustice that children feel in these situations. You are using reward systems to enable behaviour that other children are achieving and saying they should be fine from getting validation at home. Do you generally have no insite into how children feel when they see those not following rules get recognition in their peer group, but you think that can be reconciled by a child because they get recognition at home.

Yup, I find this the case too.

It's not reasonable to expect children to except all recognition to go to those with challenges and just be grateful and suck it up. That's a really shit attitude and post and has made me really pissr off for all those children who follow the rules and try their best and distrupt nobody.

I agree with you op, I have the same with my lovely but very quiet ds. I used to be a teacher so I know how hard it is to recognise all pupils but seeing from the other side is heartbreaking, seeing them get crushed every week but knowing that you can't say anything to the school as then you'll be 'that parent'.

And I feel the teachers attitude that is posted above is ingrained in culture of education now. If you follow rules, don't disrupt anyone and try as hard as you can, then so what we won't recognise it because you should be grateful that you aren't disturbing everyone else's education and haven't come to the attention of your teacher or need interventions. Get you recognition at home, you're not getting it at school. Though the school couldn't actually function if it wasn't for students like you. But hey, we are not going to recognise that. Get it at home and be grateful.

@ClareBlue
I feel 'injustice' is quite a powerful statement to make about a kid at school getting or not getting a certificate. For the majority of working people we go into our jobs and may get occasional thanks or get recognised for something particularly great. For many people working they may not even get that. That's the reality of our society. Surely the important thing is instilling work ethic, resilience and compassion and empathy in children? These things don't need a certificate for most children. But for some children, getting a certificate or recognition for this could be life changing. Why deny this? Or worse, why complain about others getting this recognition?

@Ladychatterly86 thuis is not about highflyers. The post is about those that abide by all rules and do their best but aren't top and aren't bottom. They are not going to fly through education. They are working to be as good as they can. It's not their fault that their education is disrupted by others or resources focused on a minority. But to embed an attitude that they don't need recognition is shit, tbh.

Do you read your students work as accurately as you read my post before making comment.
I said 'sense of injustice' I.E. what children feel. I didn't say it was an injustice. Your rationale for your post is depressing.

Because what children feel and perceive is important to their development. It's different as an adult. Can you genuinely not see that an 11 year old seeing those that don't following the rules getting all the recognition is not going to think, oh, that's fine because my parents praise me, and I have a clear understanding of social inequalities, so it's fine nobody ever says I have achieved an award. In fact it great because it is setting me up for life, or at least to be a shit teacher.

I got moved up because I was finding school too easy, so did DH (different years and different parts of the country)

He didn't mind it too much but socially I found it hard (I was a summer baby anyway) and the work was still too easy so it didn't achieve much. In the end I went to private school until I could start at a very good state grammar.

Do you really think that? That it's fine for children to be rewarded more for bad behaviour?

Yet that's not how the real world works? If someone is naughty most days at work they get sacked,.they don't get a pay rise on the days they behave

So you only want to ready well behaved children for the "real world" ?

Edit; Ugh. Apologies for mistakenly quoting the top post.

This isn't just a recent thing. It started in the 80s when schools took on the idea that self esteem was more important than behaviour or grades. They started rewarding kids for doing the bare minimum of what they were expected to do. IMO it's been a disaster and explains why so many young people are so reactive to normal stress and need a "safe space" where they are free from all criticism and discomfort.
Some of the blame should go to the coddling parents who don't want their little darlings to even be disciplined. They had an influence on these policies.
So YANBU.

Isn't school also supposed to encourage a good work ethic? Isn't it supposed to encourage all students? It's already been addressed on the thread that assuming average children have no other issues or struggles is a useless bias.

@ClareBlue
All children are recognised for their achievements: verbal praise, marked work and feedback, stickers etc. I gave numerous examples above of how all schools both Primary and Secondary recognise achievement for all, and not just for 'high flyers' day to day, which you have conveniently ignored. Again, a child that is turning up every day and doing what is expected is great. But this is what is expected. I don't see how a certificate to award doing the expected is necessary.Like I said earlier, it completely negates the significance of a certificate. If a child comes home sad about not getting the star of the week etc but X child did because they are usually naughty/ struggle etc. Then surely that's an opportunity to have a parental conversation about it : 'X really struggles and they have had a brilliant week so that needs to be recognised! They find that really hard. You find doing that quite easy so it wouldn't be special for you to get a certificate for that. You get certificates when you do something super special such as swimming 10 metres etc. You've worked really hard this year at school and done as is expected therefore xyz...' I can understand how all parents want recognition for their children. But this is done day to day. Surely you can see the logic that for all children to be given certificates makes it rather pointless?

They're children though. And they do thrive with praise. Seeing other children continually getting that praise for, as someone articulated really well, achieving things that they are also achieving but not being recognised for can be crushing. They're just kids. They didn't implement the reward system. But they're a part of it whether they like it or not, and it turns out an invisible part of it.

Because they are achieving what is expected, and they are doing the right thing and doing it to the best of their abilities.

I think this varies per school. My children were academic -rarely got any mention or awards. It was as if the school took the view - we don’t need to bother with you as you get the good results without much effort from us and it frees us up to deal with the ones who need more attention.

I had to explain to them the certificate assembly was not there for kids like them, it was used a motivational tool which they didn’t need. They still felt left out as clearly they were kids and wanted the occasional pat on the back.

. Even when they left the primary school, neither for the top awards in year 6. My son was the only one who played a few instruments and the only one who really partook in music lessons as a result but they didn’t even give him the music prize. It was given to a girl who had improved during the year and liked to sing. He was gutted.

i do however, empathise with teachers having to manage these situations.

@coolbreezes I never said that children are or should be rewarded for poor behaviour or poor choices.Read the thread. But supporting or encouraging children, who struggle to make correct choices by a reward system, can have really positive impacts. It may absolutely impact their adult lives, making the difference between children growing up to be functioning members of adult society or children and young people becoming involved in criminality and suffering. Have you read the statistics about young people who are permanently excluded from school and the correlation of those same children ending up in prison? Or young people who are in care that end up in prison? So yeah, I'm all for rewarding those kids when they get it right.

Why is it a choice though? Why can't you meet ALL children where they are?