To think that not all doctors are badly paid - junior ones, yes, but not all?

[MyAmusedOpalCrab]

It’s often said that doctors in the NHS are underpaid but is that really true across the board? Junior doctors, yes, absolutely. But consultants, GPs and some specialists earn six figures. AIBU to think that while the pay structure may be flawed, it’s not accurate to say all doctors are struggling financially?

@MyAmusedOpalCrab you are falling into the trap of seeing a six figure sum and assuming it means they’re rich.

£100k less tax, student loan and NHS pension will be about £4.5k a month.

£4.5k a month round here would cover one nursery fee and a ~£450k mortgage.

It’s not anywhere near as good as the headline figure suggests.

It's completely ridiculous to say they should get as much as working abroad or in the private sector. If they want to work in the private sector they can get the private sector to fund their training. Funnily enough won't necessarily be able to develop their lucrative specialisms working privately. A lot more patients go through the NHS than privately. The private sector creams off the profitable work leaving the NHS to deal with all the difficult cases.

Lots of us Could earn more abroad. I could move to UAE, dh could get way more if he worked in America. There are often downsides to moving for work. Not all of us want to be globally mobile all for the sake of a job.

I happen to agree consultant's are worth their 6 figure salaries and think doctors should be well paid but its arrogant to demand equivalence with ftse 250 CEO just because you might have been capable of similar elevated salaries if only you'd tried for a totally different career.

GP’s are self employed/not employed by the NHS.

so their salaries are outside that remit. They set their own salaries or the GP surgery that employs them does.

however they still retain the nhs pension and other benefits.

so I don’t think you can include them

Consultants are worth every penny.
But tell me, if GPs are paid so badly, how come every single one at my local practice can afford to work part time…

I didn’t say everyone is literally using those exact words but I’ve seen plenty of posts, headlines, and comments where the phrasing suggests doctors as a group are underpaid, without distinguishing between junior doctors and those at the top of the pay scale. That kind of generalisation is what I was pushing back on. The reality is more nuanced and that’s all I was pointing out.

The term is Resident doctor now actually, to avoid the confusion around what junior means.
Im a “junior” doctor. I’m 38, I’ve been a fully qualified doctor for 15 years. At night I have the on the ground responsibility for around 150-200 patients so I don’t think there’s much junior about me! Pay is all relative, I’m certainly paid less than some friends from Uni who didn’t study medicine and I certainly have more responsibility but that’s part of the job. However I’m at the top of the resident pay scale, the F1s starting out are definitely underpaid with huge debt to contend with. There’s no way I’d encourage my children to pursue medicine now.

Their pension conditions were reduced many years ago in line with other public sector workers.

Because the private sector generates income for business owners/shareholders, and salaries reflect the potential for income generation by the staff member. The more profit the higher the salary assuming doctors can negotiate with their private employer.

The public sector is literally tax payers money, any additional salary is raised through higher taxes and there’s a limit people are willing and able to pay. Better leave and pension arrangements are usually the pay off for poorer up front salaries.

The difference is that successful accountants, solicitors, actuaries, bankers, barristers, etc, have to be polite to their clients, have polite staff and turn up on time, without exception, for meetings.

I have seen many Dr's whose bills I wouldn’t had paid if I'd seen them privately, because they were rude, arrogant and dismissive.

There's the difference.

And are regularly under the stress
of redundancy rounds.

Can you show us these posts and news articles so we can see what you mean, because I haven’t read anywhere that doctors are struggling and are underpaid. But surely anyone with a brain will understand the article is about junior doctors. You have to be pretty thick think band 8/9 are being underpaid.

I'm a teacher. I suspect that, like with my profession, this apparent 'perk' is something that's widely misunderstood.

I'm hope that a bit of comfort in the later part of their careers compensates a little for the piss-take hours they do at the start of them.

I work in a hospital and the other day witnessed a doctor loudly complaining that we had run out of milk and she had to go and buy it for the coffee.. and in the same breath start discussing the well known private school she was sending her 4yo to in September.

YANBU

I do think that many doctors come from already privileged backgrounds so for a lot of them their standard of poorly paid is a lot different to others (not all of them and the ones that are can’t help it I guess but I still agree with you)

Not to mention the basics of supply and demand when you think what they have to be capable of to join the profession in the first place.

@MyAmusedOpalCrabso at the top of their career a consultant or GP may earn around £120K FTE. You think this is a good wage in 2025 given their workload and the level of responsibility they carry? Not all specialities are able to have a good private practice.
Also there are pay rates between GPs depending on if you are a partner or not. Employef GPs pay has not gone up for a number of years and partners pay has actually gone down due to the rise in cost of utilities and staff wages.

My consultant charges £200 for a 10minure consultation. Even after expenses, he's not poor.
The consultants car park at the private hospital i go to tells you all you need to know to answer OPs question.

I don’t disagree that consultants and GPs carry massive responsibility and I know £120K isn’t what it used to be given rising costs, burnout, and the strain across the NHS. My post wasn’t meant to suggest they’re overpaid - just that we often hear “doctors are underpaid” as a sweeping statement, when there’s a big range depending on role, setting, and pay structure. It’s more about adding nuance than dismissing the very real pressures many are facing.

Round where I live salaried GP rates are about £10000 per session, which given 4 long days is the normal work pattern, works out at about £80000/annum.

It can still be lucrative if someone is a partner in a high-earning practice but that's not a common position for GPs nowadays.

I used to be a GP. My half day was 7 hours long. Part time in general practice isn't equivalent to some part time jobs.

I could afford to work part time because I live in an inexpensive part of the country.

I left general practice because I felt it wasn't safe. Morning surgery was 18 patients, 10 minute appointments. Too great a risk of missing something due to time constraints. Always stressed and anxious and feeling I wasn't good enough.

I work in another specialty now.

Fortunately many of the old school consultants are on the way out and are slowly being replaced by a different breed. Quite few of the older ones are late because they have been at their private clinics all morning or on the golf course.
Solicitors and accountants aren't perfect - once you have signed to use them they have to be continually chased in my experience and even then there are mistakes.
As for being rude I have seen a fair number of patients who dont have the best of manners and yes they could be in pain or anxious but that is no excuse for shouting the nurses and clinic staff and then become smart with the doctors

There are several extra allowances that Hospital Doctors get on top of their basic pay:
Additional Rostered Hours
Night Duty Allowance
Weekend Allowance
On call Allowance
Flexible Pay Premium

It all adds up.

I believe Doctors should be the most highly paid in society. Yet I feel uncomfortable when only the basic pay is used when discussing their pay. But that can't really be helped, because the basic pay is the only thing that's clear and easy to grasp in a newspaper article- Doctors' salaries are very complicated.

On top of this, more experienced junior doctors can earn approx £600 for a single on call bank shift (which would be 24 hours but
they might not have to do anything. I am not talking about A&E, more being the on call Doctor for a ward that is ticking over nicely at the weekend with no emergencies.)

I had a friend who was a part time GP. It usually means part time seeing patients and the same equivalent hours doing paperwork and practice management.

Drs get paid well once senior compared to most people. Obviously you earn more in a few specific sectors but being a doctor is well paid, better than most other public sector roles and most private sector too - similar to chief executives of smaller companies, professional services like solicitors and accountants. Yes you hear of much higher paid of these roles but they are far from typical

Travellinglighter- why not work full time if that was the case? One of my neighbours is a part time GP and she definitely has a lot of free time. I know several consultants and they indeed work all hours. There is a huge difference.

That’s such an cliche:
“Quite few of the older ones are late because they have been at their private clinics all morning or on the golf course.”

It doesn’t really work like this for most doctors and where doctors do have private practice - unless they agreed to be paid less for NHS work, they still have to provide equivalent to full time work. It’s closely monitored.

As for the new breed of consultants- they ARE different. They no longer see the career only in vocational terms- but due to a variety of reasons are more militant about their working conditions. That is why consultants have only relatively recently being voting to strike. Unheard of before.

You may have got more value from your old school jobbing consultant.