To think “non-binary” is becoming a fashion statement for some people rather than a true identity?

[ByPoliteExpert]

Not saying it’s not real but the aestheticisation of it is creeping in.

Quite. I think in the olden days we would have referred to that sort of thinking as ‘navel gazing’.

If you have doubts, I suggest you might like to read about Jack, the man who wrote in the Guardian last week about a female bouncer telling him he shouldn’t be going into the female toilets of the Koko club. His female friends forced him through the door despite the bouncer though, for his feeling safe of course. I am not able to link it up as I have poor reception at the moment. I can do later though.

Jack is transgender and yet, states that it depends on what he is wearing as to which toilet he uses. Usually a male toilet though. But when Jack ‘presents feminine’, well, there is no way apparently that Jack could be safe in a male toilet. Even apparently in a LGBT friendly venue in London last week.

This type of thinking is seen across social media. It is not unique to Jack.

A few years ago I had a post removed because it said there's no such thing. I wonder if it's still the same with mumsnet censorship.

Toilets are not unimportant though.

I have a friend who was brutally raped. She struggles being around men who she doesn't know and trust. Having men intimate spaces like toilets would seriously trigger her.

Yes, absolutely. I can understand (I think) the motivation behind wanting to opt out of sexist stereotyping.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/15/trans-australian-uk-britain-tolerance

Although the full essay was better.

https://lettersfromjack.substack.com/p/nabbed-by-the-toilet-police

Thank you Arabella. That was what I referred to.

Once you understand that this is not a unique perspective or a ‘one off’, maybe people will stop saying ‘it is harmless.’ It isn’t harmless.

It's something I have considered may happen, because I did not see the gender identity stuff coming at all in the first place.

But I do feel as DC has matured, they're more at peace and a bit less rigid in their thinking. I feel there were a few things going on which led to the whole gender identity questioning, and it was all a bit of a perfect storm. They don't appear to be fixated on their identity like they were at 14, but maybe it's because we all affirm it?

I can't actually remember the last time they wore anything other than a tracksuit, they're no longer removing all body hair. At 20 they've got a lot of freedom in choices, so it's not like we've influenced it.

They are severely socially anxious, and need me to attend the GP etc with them. Currently they'd be horrified at sitting down with a therapist in any form. When/if they're anxiety improves, they may revisit their identity again. Time will tell, I guess.

This reads like the ChatGPT response I get when I’m testing out how captured the algorithms are.

Toilets are just as important as changing rooms. Because public toilets are used more often around the country as changing rooms.

And female people have needs too that sometimes require the use of the open space around the basins etc for cleaning themselves up etc.

Toilets are definitely as important as changing rooms to many female people.

How can someone who is not a man possible know what it feels like to be a man? Same can be said for women. Someone who is biologically not a woman cannot possibly have any idea what it means to feel like a woman.

The question there's never an answer to

😁I've just asked chatgpt and it says this is exactly something it would say, pointing out sentence structure, grammatical tells, inoffensive academic language, it's inability not to labour a point.

It's feels a bit mean to use it against itself though.

‘Not everyone feels a strong internal gender identity and that’s fine’

Oh thank you, I’m glad it’s fine. Wouldn’t want to upset anyone by not having a gender identity 😂

I still haven’t read a comprehensive explanation of what a gender identity is. Or an internal sense of self.

I know what sex I am. That is not any sort of internal sense or feeling. It is a simple fact which I learnt when I was a small child and have known ever since. I also know quite a lot about my personality. I know what my strengths are and my faults. I know what my preferences and dislikes are. That is because I am middle aged and have lived in my own self for a long time and have learnt a lot about what sort of person I am. None of that is an internal sense of self, I don’t think, it’s just me listening to myself over the last nearly 50 years.

Their internal sense of self doesn’t sit comfortably with the labels or expectations of “man” or “woman.”

So this is entirely a product of stereotypes. In the 70s and 80s we started breaking down those stereotypes for everyone - now they are being revived and weaponised against the majority.

I mentioned earlier that male ‘non binary’ people seem to think that the label entitles them to use women’s spaces rather bizarrely. I have seen a number of examples.

I really REALLY dislike it when people tell me that I DO have a gender identity and the reason that I’m unaware of it is because it matches my ‘gender assigned at birth’.

I did not have a ‘gender’ assigned at birth- my sex was observed and noted- and not just by a midwife but also by my parents. I daresay my childminder and grandparents also noticed what sex I was when they bathed me or changed my clothes.

So then some would argue that my ‘gender identity’ matches the sex I was born as. How does a gender identity match a sex? Which genders match which sexes? (I know this has been asked many times before and never answered).

And if we are to believe others when they tell us about their ‘internal sense of self’, how about they also believe me when I tell them that I do not have a gender or a gender identity. It’s incredibly patronising to keep insisting that I do.

Yes, and the other harm is that a proportion of the female NBs are lopping their breasts off. (This has probably already been pointed out, apologies if so, I have read much of but not all of the thread). That is absolutely not harmless.

I think you’ll find that quite a few in this thread are pointing out that it is troubled, often autistic children often with noteable mental health problems that identify as ‘non binary’. Rather like your child.

Some people who adopt a ‘non binary’ or ‘trans’ identity use it to bully others and are clearly seeking attention. We are very aware that not all people who say they are ‘non binary’ do that though.

Are you denying her LIVED EXPERIENCE?! 😮

If she says she did, she did. That's how this works, remember.

I know of two female NB people who have had double mastectomies in their early 20s. And one is on Testosterone. But NB not transman.

I think some people will be surprised also by male nullification surgery too.

Non-binary is non-sense.

When do we return to all understanding we are all wired differently and accepting this - we just have got to crack on with life - I am bloody brilliant at making pastry from scratch but struggle with cakes and confectionery . Do I get a label or diagnosis to help me be better at making cakes? I can read, cook, measure ingredients I just don’t really enjoy making the sweeter side of cooking. Do I have a phobia/need a diagnosis. No. Lots of things I do not like or enjoy doing but I just have to because it is a necessity.

Gender is a cultural experience as well as sex being a biological fact, so since we live within a cultural experience, I think those describing themselves as non-binary do so for more reason than a ‘fashion statement’, yes.

There are several posts that say non-binary is routed in attention-seeking and a couple that state it's due to being narcissistic.

I'm not sure who the "we" you refer to is is, but I was asked questions about my DC, and I answered them.