To say that the "alternative medicine" and conspiracy theorists about Western medicine are dangerous to society?

[YourAmplePlumPoster]

I have a friend I've known all my life. He first of all refused to have the Covid vaccine and then refused treatment for his prostate cancer and said he was going to treat it with homeopathic medicine. Result was that it spread to his hip bone. Luckily he started chemo and it's worked. What is wrong with these people?

@Fibrous

herbal medicine is a complicated subject and I don’t think people should be taking supplements willy nilly. Just because it’s natural, doesn’t mean it’s safe. But it is science, unlike some of these bullshit therapies that break all the laws of physics.

The fact that a medicine is based on a herb or plant doesn't make it unsafe or ineffective. As you say, many approved medicines are based on plants and plants have been safely used as part of medical practice for millennia.

What's dangerous is to suggest that there's a duality of "plants/herbs = safe" and "pharmaceuticals = dangerous". It's far, far more complicated than this.

Exactly this. You don't need medication for everything and since all medication carries some risk, I prefer not to take it unless needed. I wouldn't take antibiotics for a cold, for example, though they've been shown to shorten a cold by a couple of days. I will try to "sleep off" a mild headache rather than taking painkillers, which do impact the liver. This is partly because I'm quite headache-prone and would be taking it very regularly if I took it for every niggle.

Aloe vera on a mild burn that doesn't need treatment. Lavender oil has also been shown to be mildly effective on minor burns if treated early. Fab. You'll also smell like a flower, so why not?

But I do take antihistamines for hayfever; no "natural" remedy has ever worked for me. I've taken every vaccine I've been offered and would certainly take meds recommended by a doctor, including chemo if the prognosis warranted it (I wouldn't subject myself to gruelling chemo treatment if the cancer was terminal and time was short, with or without chemo).

So I do think it's a little unreasonable to tar all alternative treatments with the same brush. They have their place. The lack of critical thought in those who misuse them is the problem, and the wild misinformation from those peddling them for their own personal gain.

That’s so sad. He must have been totally brainwashed?

It is complicated. In some cases the science sector has taken up plant examples. The NHS has used digitalis, for instance. It’s true that the duality of either or is unhelpful and potentially dangerous, because many of those advocating these have little or nothing to compare them with. We need evidence based medicine, wherever its roots stem from (forgive the pun).

I’m on my 4th cancer. Primary BC in 2009. I believe chemo gave me 14 years, before secondary breast cancer arrived. Modern drugs put it into coma within 3 months. I now have a recurrence of a sarcoma cancer. Chemo 1 hasn’t worked. But I’m sure as hell not going to seek out tree bark to treat it! Oh no, today, I'm off to have the next chemo treatment on the list. And I will keep going. I’m seeking “ alternative” pain relief to work alongside my prescription drugs, but that’s as far as it goes. Maybe manuka honey and salt water rinses for my sore mouth.

Evidence of what exactly? That hospitals in China often combine actual medicine with what we would consider alternative medicine? Or that certain alternative treatments such as acupuncture can help with certain medical issues?

Honestly, I think you're picking on the wrong poster 😂 My post wasn't exactly controversial.

Coercive control happens to people of all ages, sexes, intelligence levels, and backgrounds. She was frightened of her mother, she tried to get away from her influence, the evidence backs this up. This wasn't someone who felt free to make decisions for themselves.

Yes, I thought this thread would be about her. Heartbreaking.

da dum tish!
😂

well they must have a strong argument & rationale then

Well you can get acupuncture on the NHS under certain circumstances so there must be some evidence for it.

Not really. The man with the worm in his brain thinks he knows better than the scientific community. RFK is a disaster for scientific research and Americans.

My batshit crazy, central US, bible basher belt, aunt-in-law: has end stage kidney failure, ani-vaxer/anti-big-pharma etc. now dying becuase she refused treatment at the stage it could have made a difference. said that the meds were making her worse. her kids arent vaccinated etc - tried to tell me to stop taking my insulin for gods sake - shes a bloody idiot

I can understand why people in the US stopped trusting their medical industry, it might have helped if they hadn't turned half the service users into literal drug addicts to squeeze yet more profits out of them (for one thing). There's a lot of people in the medical industry who should be taking the blame for this mess.

But to tell you not to take your insulin? That's a special level of stupid and dangerous.

Perhaps he meant fenbendazole. That's the one the snake oilers claim cures cancer. They are both anti-parasitic drugs so maybe he got confused. He doesn't sound very intelligent. Ivermectin is the one they say prevents Covid.

Cannabis oil/plant can be very useful for the side effects of chemotherapy but never as an alternative. Are people really suggesting this

Well I'm glad someone somewhat liked it 😅

Won't give up the day job just yet.

@Bridgetjonesheart

well they must have a strong argument & rationale then

They don't. They're all people who are obsessed with the idea that pushing an anti-science/anti-pharma agenda and going after Big Pharma and Big Food will eradicate cancer and all childhood diseases. They haven't thought any more about it than that.

I don't have a problem with people challenging Big Pharma or Big Food: there are a lot that's wrong with these industries. But challenging these industries in and of itself isn't a strategy for improving public health. You have to have a clear gameplan which goes beyond just saying: "vaccines and food additives are bad". And you have to listen to qualified scientists and read clinical data, as opposed to taking advice from grifters who've built careers on Facebook and TikTok. Kennedy has been pushing an antivax agenda for decades.

It's a source of huge concern to scientists in the US and all over the world. The Senate health committee chairman called on RFK yesterday to pause before reassembling the vaccine safety panel. No one believes its staffed by credible people.

@Hoardasurass

Cannabis oil/plant can be very useful for the side effects of chemotherapy but never as an alternative. Are people really suggesting this.

Sadly yes: an acquaintance of mine died from cancer a few years ago after stopping chemotherapy and relying on daily cannabis oil infusions. Surprisingly large amounts of people who are others reasonably intelligent and well educated believe this stuff. It's terrifying.

Wow - the arrogance is unreal. Pharmacological options are valid and can bring about many benefits. However, drugs and medical error also kill many, many every year. Nothing is guaranteed to be either 100% effective or 100% safe. Same with many tried and tested natural alternatives. Drugs that work great for many may also leave others with long term side effects and harm.

Making the best choice for oneself is perfectly reasonable and the complete dismissal of choice is wildly judgmental and unreasonable.

Making the best choice for oneself sounds lovely doesn't it? We can all get behind that. Major flaws in this argument though:

• Unless you're medically trained and have read a lot of trial literature you simply aren't qualified to "make the best choice for yourself". Let alone do it on behalf of a child or someone in your care. It's a fabrication to pretend you can.
• Of course not all pharmacological treatments work. But there's no equivalence between something which has gone through ten years of clinical testing, been tested on hundreds or thousands of people and something which a herbalist or homeopath gives you. You're not comparing like with like. The risks of untested medicines are far far higher and the chances of efficacy far smaller.
• "Choice" is arguably OK when it comes to adults choosing to refuse treatment (stupid, but it's their right). It's absolutely scandalous when this is a basis for public policy around health or science, as is happening in the US. The decisions of the US HHS are quite literally going to kill people.

So if that makes me "wildly judgemental" I'll take that as long as we can keep this sort of nonsense away from health policy.

Anyone here read ‘Empire of Pain’, about the Sackler family and the opioid crisis in the US? Fascinating and terrifying in equal measures. Knowing it was addictive, and then developing a product to help wean the addict off it, but also trying to make the drug prescribable for children.

Thank you for explaining but none of the bills and legislation you mentioned in your initial reply would’ve been achieved without a decent rationale.

Why do you think there's a decent rationale behind RFK's approach?

Researchers are being told to censor applications for funding to omit trigger phrases.🤯

But surely if they had advanced cancer they were sadly very likely to die anyway. Chemo can be palliative only. Hundreds of thousands of people sadly die every year of cancer fully treated by western medicine.