Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say that the "alternative medicine" and conspiracy theorists about Western medicine are dangerous to society?

245 replies

YourAmplePlumPoster · 24/06/2025 19:07

I have a friend I've known all my life. He first of all refused to have the Covid vaccine and then refused treatment for his prostate cancer and said he was going to treat it with homeopathic medicine. Result was that it spread to his hip bone. Luckily he started chemo and it's worked. What is wrong with these people?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
TempestTost · 26/06/2025 23:42

YourAmplePlumPoster · 24/06/2025 19:21

It's a bit strange actually, until fairly recently, most of the alt medicine stuff was very much on the left. Because the left was known for hating capitalist big pharma. There was all kinds of stuff printed all the time about how these companies push unnecessary drugs and supress studies that don't give the results they want.

Now these things are coded "right" and the left seems to take the view that big pharma is great and you can trust everything they say, because they are only doing Science after all.

Interesting times.

KimberleyClark · 27/06/2025 00:06

HobnobsChoice · 24/06/2025 19:51

Was that the BBC article about Paloma Shermani. Absolutely tragic and needless death. Her brothers must be in such pain over it. She also had non-Hodgkins and had a high chance of living of she had undergone chemo but instead opted for the "Gershon Protocol" which is absolutely horseshit. horseshit would have about the same effectiveness as juices and coffee enemas

She was brought up by a conspiracy theorist nutjob of a mother wasn’t she, who played a big part in her refusing chemo. I’ve just been listening to a podcast about her.

XWKD · 27/06/2025 00:43

YourAmplePlumPoster · 26/06/2025 20:08

I am so sorry for what you went through. I remain baffled by the rejection of Western medicine among certain circles and I think it has something to do with Post Colonialism Marxism on University campuses. Everything Western is evil and something to do with the Nasty White Man.

Not really. Anti-vax lunatics are often right wingers.

TooBigForMyBoots · 27/06/2025 01:20

YourAmplePlumPoster · 26/06/2025 20:08

I am so sorry for what you went through. I remain baffled by the rejection of Western medicine among certain circles and I think it has something to do with Post Colonialism Marxism on University campuses. Everything Western is evil and something to do with the Nasty White Man.

Not really, a lot of conspiracy theorists and followers are right wing. Also I think Post colonialism Marxism ceased being a thing on most university campuses at the end of the 80s.😂

YourAmplePlumPoster · 28/06/2025 00:37

TooBigForMyBoots · 27/06/2025 01:20

Not really, a lot of conspiracy theorists and followers are right wing. Also I think Post colonialism Marxism ceased being a thing on most university campuses at the end of the 80s.😂

No it didn't. We're stuck with it now, particularly "gender studies" which is "queer" and trans theory.

OP posts:
YourAmplePlumPoster · 28/06/2025 00:40

This is one of the occasions where the far right and the far left collude on a particular issue - vaccines and Western science. The same as they collude on anti semitism.

OP posts:
YourAmplePlumPoster · 28/06/2025 01:28

A worrying 27% think I am unreasonable. They are the people presumably who refuse vaccines even for innocent children who should be free of disease in first world countries. Measles outbreaks in the US or UK are completely inexcusable.

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 28/06/2025 02:47

YourAmplePlumPoster · 28/06/2025 00:37

No it didn't. We're stuck with it now, particularly "gender studies" which is "queer" and trans theory.

That is not what Post colonialism Marxism is.Confused

Charel2girl5 · 28/06/2025 04:27

MsNevermore · 24/06/2025 19:47

Which is mental when you look to history and see the opposite.

It was the peasant folk who knew that if the cut of your hand is looking a bit manky, give it a wash and have a munch on some cheese that’s on the turn and it will probably look better in a few days 🤷🏻‍♀️😂
Whereas the aristocracy had a sore throat and having leeches stuck on their necks by the doctors who didn’t think washing their hands was important 🫠

Mouldy cheese lady was burned as a witch whilst leech man was promoted to royal physician 😳👍🏻👍🏻

Great post! A brilliant historical spin on things! 👍

Hoardasurass · 29/06/2025 10:43

YourAmplePlumPoster · 28/06/2025 00:40

This is one of the occasions where the far right and the far left collude on a particular issue - vaccines and Western science. The same as they collude on anti semitism.

Have you heard of the horseshoe theory?

To say that the "alternative medicine" and conspiracy theorists about Western medicine are dangerous to society?
MuckFusk · 30/06/2025 00:45

YourAmplePlumPoster · 28/06/2025 00:40

This is one of the occasions where the far right and the far left collude on a particular issue - vaccines and Western science. The same as they collude on anti semitism.

Oh no. Somebody may ask you to explain the anti-Semitism comment and we'll to get another Israel/Palestine shitshow. 😖

MuckFusk · 30/06/2025 01:03

Hoardasurass · 29/06/2025 10:43

Have you heard of the horseshoe theory?

It's really just that authoritarians are alike and there are authoritarians on each side. It's not about how far you are to your end of the economic spectrum, it's how willing you are to try to silence opposition and impose your will on others.
Have you ever done the political compass test?
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

The way they phrase it is socially libertarian versus socially authoritarian.
I always score quite far left and quite libertarian, so it's been pretty accurate for me every time I've done it.

The Political Compass

self-test of your position on 2 political dimensions

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/06/2025 08:57

saltinesandcoffeecups · 25/06/2025 20:12

Hey I’ll jump into this! My comments in bold italics

Trust the science! It’s fact after all, isn’t it? Of course it is you are saying as you nod your head.

Hmm but wait UC Berkeley Science department doesn’t agree with that…

https://undsci.berkeley.edu/understanding-science-101/how-science-works/

“The simplified, linear description of the scientific method implies that science concludes … but in reality, scientific conclusions are always revisable if warranted by the evidence. Scientific investigations are often ongoing, raising new questions even as old ones are answered.“

Surely that’s only true for science related to rocks or outer space or some other type of science.

Oh hmm…maybe they do mean medicine…

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/why-medical-research-keeps-changing-its-mind-2020010318576

“Researchers collected more than 3,000 randomized controlled trials; these are considered the most reliable types of research because they randomly assign otherwise similar study subjects to different treatment groups and try to account (control) for factors other than the treatments that might affect the results.”

”Here's what they found:

  • Of 3,017 studies analyzed from the last 15 years, 396 came to conclusions that reversed prior treatments or practice recommendations. This represented about 13% of randomized controlled trials appearing in these journals and about 6% of their original research papers.
  • The most common conditions were cardiovascular disease, preventive medicine, and critical care medicine (such as care received in an intensive care unit).
  • Medications, procedures, and vitamins accounted for about two-thirds of the reversals.“

Well shit …if I read that correctly more than 10% reversals recommended… that seems kinda high.

Well, at least we can trust our scientists, right. Crud, apparently not according to our friends at UC Berkeley Science department

https://undsci.berkeley.edu/understanding-science-101/the-social-side-of-science-a-human-and-community-endeavor/human-endeavor-human-biases/

“Because science is a human endeavor, it benefits from our best traits – our curiosity, creativity, and perseverance. Unfortunately, it can also be affected by some of our worst motivations and beliefs – like racism, sexism, ageism, ableism, homophobia, and other forms of prejudice. These prejudices have shaped and continue to shape the course of science in many ways.”

Hmmm, now that I think about it that may explain a few things. I don’t want to not trust the science but it’s not looking good if your medical science came about before the ‘90s and you are a woman.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gender-bias-in-healthcare#consequences

“Inequity in medical research reinforces gender bias. In the past, many scientists believed that males made the best test subjects because they do not have menstrual cycles and cannot become pregnant. This meant that a vast amount of research only involved male participants.
However, the important biological differences between the sexes can influence how diseases, drugs, and other therapies affect people. As a result, many studies from before the 1990s are flawed.

The lack of inclusivity in studies has left doctors with a more limited understanding of the health of female and intersex people.
Meanwhile, a lack of awareness about this disparity may fuel gender bias because it can contribute to misunderstanding between doctors and patients.”

Ending the bold comments now because they are annoying me…but the rest will be my opinion

Ok I’m guessing by now you’re getting my point.

I’ll say it loud and clear right now. I get vaccines, I avail myself to all kinds of medicine. I don’t think there are big conspiracies trying to kill, control, or other nonsense. I trust my doctors.

Now I personally think that people who blindly follow science are just as dangerous as those who fully reject it. Everything regarding medicine and treatment (well, all science for that matter) should be viewed through a critical lense and should be fully questioned. We should never lay ourselves down to the almighty science alter and leave our common sense behind. I said I trust my doctors, but you bet your life I’m looking things up on my own. I’m using reputable sources and I’m following up with questions if I have them.

Just last month a doctor advised me of a drug that could help a situation that I have. We spoke about it and I said that I didn’t want to rush into a decision. She was great. She sent me more information and I was able to read up on it. In the email she sent, ironically, she said she had made a mistake in our discussion. We were talking about using the drug as a preventative and the article/study she linked did not study the preventative ability just treatment. In the end I didn’t feel like the risks were tolerable for me and decided against the drug.

This is how medicine should work. It should be a discussion, it should use the best information available at that moment in time, it should have active participation by the patient, and it should include complementary treatment when appropriate.

Remember, this is the same establishment that encouraged women to smoke during pregnancy! ( https://ncds.info/home/what-have-we-learned/smoking-during-pregnancy/ )

Wow this got long but it was fun to research 🧐😁

That's exactly why Science > woo.

Because it has a principle that any conclusions will probably be replaced by better in the future, rather than sticking with the exorcisms, beatings or bananas in preference to antipsychotics, biologics or statins.

Hoardasurass · 30/06/2025 15:00

MuckFusk · 30/06/2025 01:03

It's really just that authoritarians are alike and there are authoritarians on each side. It's not about how far you are to your end of the economic spectrum, it's how willing you are to try to silence opposition and impose your will on others.
Have you ever done the political compass test?
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

The way they phrase it is socially libertarian versus socially authoritarian.
I always score quite far left and quite libertarian, so it's been pretty accurate for me every time I've done it.

Edited

I hadn't heard of it before but it's an interesting read so thanks

YourAmplePlumPoster · 30/06/2025 19:41

Does anybody go to the Doc these days and ignore everything they say cause they know better than the Doc? Must be a nightmare these days for GPs between the exceptionally well educated middle classes and their alternative therapies lectured to the doc in smug tones and the loud mouthed chavvie types who shout and spit at them?

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 30/06/2025 19:50

I had breast cancer a few years back. A person I am no longer friends with (because I had the first Covid vaccine and she was offended), told me that I shouldn’t have any of the standard treatment as it’s all “poison” and gave me a book about curing my cancer with diet. Fuck the fuck off you deluded idiot. I’m a lone parent, my son was 7 at the time and she wanted me to play Russian roulette with my cancer. She was furious when I had the vaccine and she just lives her life around her endless conspiracy theories. Her own child had epilepsy which she diagnosed as a “leaky gut”. How the poor kid is still alive is beyond me.

As an alternative view, I have a wonderful friend who had stage 3 bowel cancer and had all the standard treatments but also researched supplements and dietary changes to compliment it. He had miraculous results and remains cancer free. That is common sense. I am sick to death of these people who pedal absolute nonsense and cost people their lives. A woman in the news recently discouraged her daughter from having chemo for a 90% curable cancer and the girl died. I don’t know how she lives with herself but she’s still pedalling her shite to the gullible.

Covidwoes · 30/06/2025 20:02

This seems to be getting worse and worse. Poor Paloma Shemirani was killed by her mother. Kate, her mum, had breast cancer and was cured by surgery, yet claimed she was cured by juices! Absolute nutcase of a woman. Unfortunately, she and many other similar people, gained a lot of attention during Covid. I find it so depressing now that whenever there is a news article about someone dying, particularly a young person, there’s always at least one insensitive idiots in the comments blaming vaccines.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 30/06/2025 20:22

TheFormidableMrsC · 30/06/2025 19:50

I had breast cancer a few years back. A person I am no longer friends with (because I had the first Covid vaccine and she was offended), told me that I shouldn’t have any of the standard treatment as it’s all “poison” and gave me a book about curing my cancer with diet. Fuck the fuck off you deluded idiot. I’m a lone parent, my son was 7 at the time and she wanted me to play Russian roulette with my cancer. She was furious when I had the vaccine and she just lives her life around her endless conspiracy theories. Her own child had epilepsy which she diagnosed as a “leaky gut”. How the poor kid is still alive is beyond me.

As an alternative view, I have a wonderful friend who had stage 3 bowel cancer and had all the standard treatments but also researched supplements and dietary changes to compliment it. He had miraculous results and remains cancer free. That is common sense. I am sick to death of these people who pedal absolute nonsense and cost people their lives. A woman in the news recently discouraged her daughter from having chemo for a 90% curable cancer and the girl died. I don’t know how she lives with herself but she’s still pedalling her shite to the gullible.

I sincerely hope you are recovering. That person was not a friend.

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 30/06/2025 20:26

YourAmplePlumPoster · 30/06/2025 20:22

I sincerely hope you are recovering. That person was not a friend.

Thank you for your kind words. I’m absolutely fine, thank you so much! Also you’re right. In my case I don’t think it came from a “bad” place as such. She truly believes her own narrative. She was insufferable over the pandemic. I feel it’s a mental health issue.

MyPinkTraybake · 02/10/2025 18:53

YourAmplePlumPoster · 28/06/2025 00:37

No it didn't. We're stuck with it now, particularly "gender studies" which is "queer" and trans theory.

Did you study sociology at university?

Marxism has nothing to do with gender studies or queer theory. If anything Marxist feminists see class as more significant than gender. I dont think Marx said anything about being queer or trans. That was more Foucaults domain. If anything maybe trans would come under the hegemony of ideas theory- trying to negate that class exists or that class can be overcome or something.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page