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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Intelectual abuse should be a thing

96 replies

Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 09:24

I am not sure how else to name it. I refer to cases like America's most hated family -I just rewatched the documentary and it still shocks me to the core that those children live in that environment. For those who don't know, they belong to a "church" that basically supports the idea that if not part of the said church you burn in hell. They take those kids to demonstrations like war veterans and soldiers funerals, pride parades, put the children on street corners with big signs "God hate fags" "you will burn in hell" etc. All they do is spread hate and they are proud of it. I really don't think that even if those kids leave the church they will never have a normal life. They expose those kids to this hate, one child was hit in the head with a bottle dduring one of those signs displays and the mother was crying boohoo how can they hurt a child. But she is the one getting the kids to hold those disgusting signs. Why are they not removed from the family? Why is this allowed? On the other hand, if this would be a thing, where do you cross the line, as thinking about it children living in overly religious families are also exposed and raised into some kind of doctrine or mentality? Just thinking about it, what is your opinion? This is not a post to shame any religion, everyone has the right to follow whatever and whoever they please don't turn this into a warzone, be respectful.

OP posts:
Sthoremouse · 22/06/2025 09:28

Never heard of this before, can you share the family or church name so I can do some research?

Completely agree though, sounds like a horrid environment for children to be in. Only reason I can imagine for them not removing children from that is the argument of religious beliefs but I'm unsure on American policies and laws around child protection so I could and likely am completely wrong.

Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 09:33

Hi, sure
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
There is a documentary by Loiis Theiroux (I might spell that wrong) is available on streaming services not sure which one BBC or ITV

Fred Phelps - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

OP posts:
x2boys · 22/06/2025 09:34

Sthoremouse · 22/06/2025 09:28

Never heard of this before, can you share the family or church name so I can do some research?

Completely agree though, sounds like a horrid environment for children to be in. Only reason I can imagine for them not removing children from that is the argument of religious beliefs but I'm unsure on American policies and laws around child protection so I could and likely am completely wrong.

I think it's on BBC I player it's a,Louis Theroux documentary.

Fluffywhitecat · 22/06/2025 09:35

It's the westboro baptist church.
A lot of the kids are grown up and have walked away from it thankfully.

x2boys · 22/06/2025 09:35

Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 09:24

I am not sure how else to name it. I refer to cases like America's most hated family -I just rewatched the documentary and it still shocks me to the core that those children live in that environment. For those who don't know, they belong to a "church" that basically supports the idea that if not part of the said church you burn in hell. They take those kids to demonstrations like war veterans and soldiers funerals, pride parades, put the children on street corners with big signs "God hate fags" "you will burn in hell" etc. All they do is spread hate and they are proud of it. I really don't think that even if those kids leave the church they will never have a normal life. They expose those kids to this hate, one child was hit in the head with a bottle dduring one of those signs displays and the mother was crying boohoo how can they hurt a child. But she is the one getting the kids to hold those disgusting signs. Why are they not removed from the family? Why is this allowed? On the other hand, if this would be a thing, where do you cross the line, as thinking about it children living in overly religious families are also exposed and raised into some kind of doctrine or mentality? Just thinking about it, what is your opinion? This is not a post to shame any religion, everyone has the right to follow whatever and whoever they please don't turn this into a warzone, be respectful.

Quite a lot of the kids have left the family and the church now I think ?

Coffeeishot · 22/06/2025 09:38

x2boys · 22/06/2025 09:34

I think it's on BBC I player it's a,Louis Theroux documentary.

He has made 2 more of these documentaries, the last was in 2019 or maybe 20, these children were emotionally and physiologically abused the adults are an absolute disgrace , although I think a handful of the kids have left the church and are estranged,

Bigearringsbigsmile · 22/06/2025 09:38

The westborough baptist church.

It's not " intellectual " abuse. It's all part and parcel of emotional abuse.
The American system snd laws are so whackadoodle that it is legal to do this.

But I agree. The kids should be removed.

LancashireButterPie · 22/06/2025 09:39

I agree with you OP.
It's a form of radicalisation really.
No child should grow up in an environment that encourages hatred. I would like to think that in the UK, a multi agency referral would be made and the matter would be assessed accordingly.

Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 09:39

That's good to know, I don't have update just the original documentary which was filmed about 15 years ago. So it makes sense. Are there any other children exposed to this, though? I still don't understand how it was allowed to happen and nobody interferred. Or maybe they did but we don't know. Who knows!

OP posts:
x2boys · 22/06/2025 09:40

Coffeeishot · 22/06/2025 09:38

He has made 2 more of these documentaries, the last was in 2019 or maybe 20, these children were emotionally and physiologically abused the adults are an absolute disgrace , although I think a handful of the kids have left the church and are estranged,

Oh I agree the kids are just spouting hate the adults have taught them to spout .

LozzaCh0ps · 22/06/2025 09:41

OP look up Megan Phelps Roper, she’s one of the older ones in the Louis documentaries. You can tell in those documentaries that she’s interested in engaging with “outsiders” even if she’s a bit combative. She’s really done well since she left, her JK Rowling podcast is great.

Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 09:43

Bigearringsbigsmile · 22/06/2025 09:38

The westborough baptist church.

It's not " intellectual " abuse. It's all part and parcel of emotional abuse.
The American system snd laws are so whackadoodle that it is legal to do this.

But I agree. The kids should be removed.

I called it "intellectual" because basically is just "dumbing" those children and take away any form of self thinking and freedom of expressing themseleves. Home schooled but they were not allowed to read and watch any tv as far as I remember. I don't think they had access to a normal level of education.

OP posts:
takealettermsjones · 22/06/2025 09:43

Echoing PP about Megan Phelps-Roper: if you're interested, read her book, Unfollow. She also has a TED talk that's very good.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 22/06/2025 09:43

Don't most religions disapprove of homosexuality? I'm sure there are many denominations where you'll 'burn in hell' if you 'sin'. The only fully inclusive religion I know is Wicca. All others seem regressive regarding women and homosexuality.

Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 09:47

MiloMinderbinder925 · 22/06/2025 09:43

Don't most religions disapprove of homosexuality? I'm sure there are many denominations where you'll 'burn in hell' if you 'sin'. The only fully inclusive religion I know is Wicca. All others seem regressive regarding women and homosexuality.

They do to some extent, but to display God hates fags at soldiers funerals is a world away from what other churches do. However, I get your point, I raised it myself, that's why I asked the question at the end of my post where do we draw the line.

OP posts:
Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 09:47

takealettermsjones · 22/06/2025 09:43

Echoing PP about Megan Phelps-Roper: if you're interested, read her book, Unfollow. She also has a TED talk that's very good.

Will check that out, thank you!

OP posts:
x2boys · 22/06/2025 09:50

MiloMinderbinder925 · 22/06/2025 09:43

Don't most religions disapprove of homosexuality? I'm sure there are many denominations where you'll 'burn in hell' if you 'sin'. The only fully inclusive religion I know is Wicca. All others seem regressive regarding women and homosexuality.

I'm not defending religions that think homosexuality is a sin but they don't go round spreading hate and teaching their kids to spread hate
It's on another level.

DysmalRadius · 22/06/2025 09:58

Weirdly, Fred Phelps was a civil rights lawyer in his early career and was instrumental in dismantling racial segregation laws. He fought against racial segregation in the school system and police targeting of black organisations. He even sued Ronald Regan for failing to maintain the separation of church and state.

But he was also an awful man who did terrible things and encouraged them in other's. Such a web of contradictions...

Jerrypicker · 22/06/2025 09:59

There is something called faith based/spiritual abuse, and it is a recognised form of abuse. I recently did a safeguarding course and it was mentioned in the material.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 22/06/2025 10:00

x2boys · 22/06/2025 09:50

I'm not defending religions that think homosexuality is a sin but they don't go round spreading hate and teaching their kids to spread hate
It's on another level.

Yes they do. In the Catholic church, homosexuality is a mortal sin and in many Christian countries, homosexuality is outlawed or punished. If hate isn't passed onto children, who is teaching them that homosexuality is sinful? I'm not just talking about Christianity BTW.

x2boys · 22/06/2025 10:05

MiloMinderbinder925 · 22/06/2025 10:00

Yes they do. In the Catholic church, homosexuality is a mortal sin and in many Christian countries, homosexuality is outlawed or punished. If hate isn't passed onto children, who is teaching them that homosexuality is sinful? I'm not just talking about Christianity BTW.

I was brought Up as RC I'm very very lapsed and yes it's taught its a sin but we were never taught to spread hate or turn up at war veteran funerals with hate filled banners or teach our kids dances and sings containing hate.
My point is that this is a different level

x2boys · 22/06/2025 10:07

DysmalRadius · 22/06/2025 09:58

Weirdly, Fred Phelps was a civil rights lawyer in his early career and was instrumental in dismantling racial segregation laws. He fought against racial segregation in the school system and police targeting of black organisations. He even sued Ronald Regan for failing to maintain the separation of church and state.

But he was also an awful man who did terrible things and encouraged them in other's. Such a web of contradictions...

I didn't know that
I wonder how he managed to justify it to himself.?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 22/06/2025 10:09

x2boys · 22/06/2025 10:05

I was brought Up as RC I'm very very lapsed and yes it's taught its a sin but we were never taught to spread hate or turn up at war veteran funerals with hate filled banners or teach our kids dances and sings containing hate.
My point is that this is a different level

In many Christian countries you can be killed if you're outed or arrested.

Missanimosity · 22/06/2025 10:10

DysmalRadius · 22/06/2025 09:58

Weirdly, Fred Phelps was a civil rights lawyer in his early career and was instrumental in dismantling racial segregation laws. He fought against racial segregation in the school system and police targeting of black organisations. He even sued Ronald Regan for failing to maintain the separation of church and state.

But he was also an awful man who did terrible things and encouraged them in other's. Such a web of contradictions...

That is so peculiar. How do you know this? Not questioning you, just curious.

OP posts:
Coffeeishot · 22/06/2025 10:12

The mother Fred's dd was also a Lawyer it was just so weird .Fred barely spoke to his daughter which just seemed to fuel her more, her hate for everybody was evident, I think because they were classed as a church and not a cult that is how they got away with abusing their children.

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