To ask how much energy and thought you put into maintaining eye contact and thinking about your facial expressions in conversations?

[summerrrx]

And if you are neurodiverse or neurotypical?

I have always been good at making eye contact, but there is definitely a constant stream of 'that's enough eye contact, now look down, ok look back up, now look over there, now look back, now fiddle with your nails so you can look at them instead, now look back up'. I don't know if everyone thinks like that?

I'm also quite an overly enthusiastic listener, and if I'm being spoken to I nod and smile away and make sure I look like I'm listening. I even do it during Teams meetings; I notice I'm very aware of my facial expressions and I struggle to multitask during meetings as it feels rude. I think I do it so that the person I'm talking with feels listened to; but I've now started to wonder if it's a form of masking?

I have to consciously make an effort to make eye contact, otherwise I’d look away. I don’t know why but probably an anxiety, self esteem thing. I’m NT as far as I’m aware.

A lot.

I'm probably somewhat autistic but I'm trying not to think about it too much.

Non at all and I'm ND (ADHD).

I am deaf though, so I'm staring at people's mouths to lipread all the time which removes a lot of the awkwardness since I don't ever have to think about it. I've found it makes a lot of ND people feel very comfortable around me though since I'm never making direct eye contact while still making it very clear I'm paying full attention.

I've lived in this skin for so long now I know that some people are going to be pissed off at my very existence. Thankfully I've lived so long in my skin I can be my natural self (helpful and handy) which the vast majority of people view kindly upon. It's still tough putting up with the nasty people (I'm alone with an autistic son - probably through my choice as no man can come near to my expectations) but hey ho!

The nasty people are just mere blocks in my way - to be overcome. I may or may not be autistic myself - don't care and it doesn't matter as I've done a super-fine job in helping my autistic son negotiate the many blocks in his way set by far lesser people than him.

I’m the same as you OP — I’m NT to the best of my knowledge although I do sometimes wonder.

Constant. Absolutely constant. I very rarely relax in a conversation. And when I do it's wonderful. But I don't know 'peace' - not really.

I'm constantly thinking about how my mouth and teeth and chin look (minor imperfections but I'm obsessed with them ) I wish I had a nice angled jaw bone and good strong features but I don't and it makes me insecure.

I'm conscious of how I'm positioned and how I'm standing , what I'm doing with my hands. Whether I look fat or whether I'm being judged. Then I come across as false and grinning like a loon.

I hate my accent so I try to speak more eloquently (false again ) I wear myself out on a daily basis. Sometimes it's so exhausting I have to shit myself away and protect the world from me. Then I feel isolated and low.

I know I have ADHD (constant overwhelm/paralysis, occasional burst of doing everything really quickly plus many more traits.) but it won't be a fashionable diagnosis soon and will be met with an eye roll - so I won't bother pursuing.

My DH is undiagnosed autistic and his social skills and basic courtesy are zero. Our lives are the "Paul show" (not real name ) the marriage drains me so much. I've just shrunk. Good points too, but it's been a particularly bad day with him, wandering off many metres ahead in a sea of thousands of people at a festival type thing. Usual practice. Oblivious. Talking about it is a waste of time. I have shitty social skills now, but can't figure out if I'm on the spectrum or if I've spent so long with him that it's rubbed off. He doesn't like to socialise so I've lost many connections. Not the life I wanted to show my kids. (They have a blessed life in most ways ) Sorry I needed to rant tonight. I'm just getting it off my chest. I don't want solutions, I can't take them anyway.

So yes, very self conscious, definitely ADHD, some autistic traits (always felt everyone around me relaxes and is just normal and there's something I don't understand about the way the interact ). Sorry for the Debbie downer post.

ND and I always worried that I was focusing on one eye and wasn't making the right amount of eye contact...

I must admit that I've read a few comments from those who have said not ND and thought 'hmm'. It's very difficult to not see the signs when you've been diagnosed. I'm sure it's more common than the numbers reported.

Ps I don't know whether I'm just mentally unhinged (it's possible 🫩) but, when I'm talking to people I'm so so conscious of what my mouth is doing. It's all I can think about. Hoe my teeth and lips are looking whilst I'm talking. I loved it when we wore masks so that I could relax a bit and hide my mouth. I also like wearing sunglasses for the same reason. I'm less self concious. I can't bear eye contact though. Stress makes it worse, and with a stressy autistic DH that makes me feel constantly on edge, I'm pretty much always stressed.

Ps now I've had my self indulgent hissy fit on this thread 🙈... I've re-read your OP again and my god, I could have written it.

Especially the bit about the nodding and smiling to make sure I look like I'm eagerly listening (but I'm so busy making sure I look like I'm listening that I'm...not listening) I also tend to disassociate when people are talking to me and I really don't mean to. But (sorry, him again 😑) my husband is a terrible monologuer, I mean really long drawn out info dumping in a monotone flat voice with no clue or care that he's being so boring. So I've kind of got used to switching off the moment he opens his mouth. I think I've got so used to doing that , that my mind now instantly goes to 'switch off' if someone is telling a slightly longer story.

I also am terrible if not relaxed at being the one speaking. I'll try and wrap my story up really quickly as I feel self conscious and awkward and start over explaining: person: "what did you do this weekend?" Me : " we just popped to the park so erm, yeh, so, yeh... So how are you ? You ok yes? Yes? "

None at all. I’m either interested in what’s being said, and if it’s being said by someone else I’m asking questions to elicit more detail of whatever, or not interested or actively horrified/enraged, so engaged in changing the subject or shutting them down. Occasionally by putting up a hand and saying ‘I’m going to have to stop you there, Bernard.’

I'm super expressive with my hands - it's been noticed by people far more experienced in life than me. If my hands are moving about it means I'm serious about what I'm saying, even if it's humourish. And, god forbid, if I set my beady eye on you - it's so direct it's scary.

Not autistic myself (who cares) but great skills to have for raising an autistic child. And much as I wouldn't wish it on anybody it turns out that the young HT who permanently excluded my ds aged 7, coz you know bad parenting and behaviour, not his underway assessment for ASD has bitten that fucker in the ass.

Turns out he has not 1, but 2 ASD dc which not only clipped his wings but being the great believer in the state that provided him with a job that he is - had not one single iota of knowledge to get the best for his own dc. Sad fact.

If it was just me and him in a competition I'd be saying yah boo you wanker, but I can't as the failure of his own children to reach there best is nothing but sad.

If I don’t concentrate on eye contact I definitely drift away. Pretty sure I’m autistic.

Think about it constantly. Diagnosed AuDHD.

I love authentic people like you. If everyone was authentic, life would be so much easier. I care whether people like me , that's my problem.

I'm autistic and pretty much do what you describe, although put a bit less effort into eye contact.

I’m always thinking but eye contact is not a big concern, it’s usually whether I’m smiling enough (or other relevant facial expressions), whether I’ve contributed audibly enough, whether I’m talking too fast, too much, too little, etc. I also tend to drift off so am always focussing on staying engaged. No diagnosis but suspect ADHD.

@PondUnderTrees - saying I'm going to have to stop there Bernard is a priceless give to have. I salute you from across the internet.

But isn’t it easier and more within your control to think ‘Do I like this person?’ You can’t do anything about whether someone else likes you or not, after all.

Yup. Very familiar. Sometimes I realise that I've been concentrating on one aspect of NVC that I've forgotten to check in with my facial expression, and it hasn't kept up with the conversation, so I'm still smiling but the other person has moved on from telling me about last weekend's fun and is now telling me that they are planning to sprinkle their mum's ashes on Saturday.

I have a diagnosed ND dc, and our entire family show strong traits of ND.

Always.

Do I look interested?
Do I look bored?
Do I look too serious?
Oh God, what did they just say?
Nod.
Oh b*gger, just interrupted but it was relevant and they are talking SO slowly.
Look less interested.
Oh, got to remember to call the GP.
Are we just being weird now?
Cat food! We’re out and they’re not getting salmon again.
We’re being weird, aren’t we?
I LOVE their glasses!
They’re bored.
I’m boring.
They’ve stopped talking. SAY SOMETHING.
No, not THAT.
Oh God they’ll think you’re dull and not want to talk to you because they think you’re awful.
Nobody likes us anyway.
Let’s just go.

Not diagnosed ND but I think there might be signs 😜

The pontificating Bernards of the world need stopping.

(I mean, I know a wonderful Bernard, too, but I had a bad early experience with one…)

The OP describes my process to a T. Constant, constant monitoring of my facial expression, nodding, body language, eye contact, when to make a mm-hm noise. It's exhausting and, like a PP noted, often takes up so much of my attention and energy that I have trouble focusing on what the other person is actually saying!

I'm gobsmacked by the people commenting that they just never really have to think about it. Although theoretically I did know this was a possibility.

I'm diagnosed autistic. I do really like people but by God it's hard work socialising with them.

I remember my headteacher at school telling me off for not looking him in the eye - it was the first time I realised it was a thing - whether I did it or not before, I have no idea, but I know he made me feel self conscious about it. I have (diagnosed) ADHD and PDA. I’d say that no eye contact feels odd and I definitely want some, but I also need to look away periodically. I don’t think I’d have given it any thought whatsoever if my HT hadn’t said anything.

I mean you're right, of course. It's really really hard to undo fundamental things you've been taught subconsciously from a young age though. I haven't got my violin out or anything, I don't feel sorry for myself. But my parents were very critical of me and it kind of did a number on my self esteem. I'm better now. But having a bad day today so probably not the most positive responses I'm giving out tonight .

If I've known someone years and trust them then hardly any unless its an important conversation.. if someones clearly distressed even if I know them well then I'll obviously put a lot of thought into looking concerned and sympathetic.
I do that because I have been told when I just act natural I come across strange and cold. I don't like eye contact so if I were just relaxed and listening I would be looking away from someone... but I understand this reads as uninterested so I make effort to give appropriate eye contact if someone is upset or to anyone I don't know well.
I like people in general but I find interacting very stressful even though I want to do it. I do have to constantly think about my body movements and facial expressions and what to say..
Sometimes I can tell its gone wrong and I've not come across well.
It's very draining.
I've never been diagnosed with autism but I do think I'm autistic.
My daughter is under assessment for autism and so I read up on it. I really fit the bill apart from I do have a vivid imagination and can put myself in other people's shoes. I can tell what other people are feeling etc.. it's just I often struggle to understand how to react in the way they expect or would please them.
Most of my closest friends are autistic and diagnosed as autistic.. which is another reason I think I might be. I find it much easier to be around autistic people who are similar to me.

I think the overthinking social interaction can sometimes be a symptom of anxiety as well not necessarily only autism or even sometimes it can be due to trauma of some type that's effected you to be hyper aware of microexpressions and people's judgement etc ptsd or cptsd.. other things as well.
So it's not always due to just having autism. You know yourself best