New abortion laws

[Cheesetoastie537]

TW

I'm pro choice but the new potential abortion law changes feel a bit extreme to me. If I've understood right, if a woman was even in late stage of pregnancy (even say 35 weeks) could self abort the pregnancy and not face any charges for the death of a viable baby. I thought the 24 week mark was there for that reason. I know a woman still can't get a medically assisted abortion after 24 weeks (unless certain circumstances) but surely they'll just go home and do it now because theres nothing preventing them. No one should be in that situation surely. But if it was a case that a late pregnancy is now not wanted but a medically assisted abortion is not available and the woman knows they can do it themselves with no charges, wouldn't that just increase self done abortions?

If anything, shouldn't the law just change so that medical abortion at any stage is allowed then to at least make it safe for woman rather than them attempting a self abortion.

I'm not sure if the change in law opens up more issues than it fixes. And in part I feel that there's no protection for late pregnancies that the baby would have survived and now there's no legal charges for their life.

I've never really thought too much about abortion otherthan pro choice and felt the UK had a good middle ground.

Do you think women are just sitting about now waiting to have late term abortions by themselves at home? Waiting for it to be decriminalised so they can throw themselves down the stairs safe in the knowledge there wont be an investigation?

All the statistics show that women have abortions as soon as they can, do you think this will change if miscarriages and still births aren't investigated, women will sit for 30 weeks twiddling their thumbs and then decide to do whatever to get rid of the pregnancy?

I think the safeguards need to be put in place for women and then very desperate situations won't happen.

Which makes you pro choice. Your choice for yourself is no abortion. But you believe other women should be able choose. I wholeheartedly agree

This.

In my personal situation I called the GP and asked for pills to stop a pregnancy well before 12 weeks, it was within a month. they wanted me to have an appointment first before they would. No just give me the pills.

Have you read the actual guidance?
Not a news article about it, but the actual guidance the police are working to?

I've read it.

I assume you haven't because then you'd realise that most of the news articles are scaremongering. Firstly, the guidance does not change what the police can do, it just reminds them that they can check phones and that period apps exist (male officers may not realise). They've always been able to check these if there is sufficient justification. Secondly, the guidance applies to certain stillbirths only. It does not apply more 24 weeks, and only to post 24 weeks where certain red flags are present - a tiny proportion of cases. Even then, most of the time they wouldn't be able to justify checking a phone.

They put a woman through hell for four years. All because she didn’t know how pregnant she was. Whoch isn’t an uncommon phenomenon. My own second child, as far as I knew I was 1 month pregnant when I found out. I suffered a substantial bleed at what I thought was 12 weeks. It turned out I was actually further along by a whole two months - I’d had two normal periods whilst I was actually pregnant.

Ive read the guidance. I find it reprehensible.

Men are allowed to abuse women, walk away from their pregnancies and just carry on as normal with often little consequences.

Our bodies. Our lives are the ones impacted. Our burden.

Our choice.

End of.

The life and body of a viable baby being aborted at a very late stage is also severely impacted. To the point of injury and even death. We need equal safeguards for children at risk of violence.

I don't think we're going to see a huge rush of women trying to terminate at 35 weeks+

But what we have seen under the current liberalisation is a clutch of self administered terminations at around 20-26 weeks, which is pushing at the boundaries of where the law currently protects healthy gestating babies, not to mention being dangerous for the women too.

The court accepted that Nicola Packer made a genuine mistake. But her termination was at 26 weeks and I've not seen any suggestion that she had any of the desperate late term health scenarios that would have qualified her for a legal abortion. She just didn't want to be pregnant. But on balance the probability is that her child was healthy and would have had a better than 50% chance of survival had it been born at that point. She did it accidentally, but decriminalisation opens the door to do exactly the same thing deliberately, with no consequences.

The question for Parliament is whether that child or others at around that point of gestation deserve the protection of the law at all or not. Creasy and colleagues would say no: I am not sure the public is with them. I can see this massively backfiring and triggering more restrictive term limits.

If you've read the guidance, how can you think it applies to miscarriages when it is very clear that it doesn't?

The word miscarriage is actually only mentioned once in the document, and that's to explain that the guidance applies to stillbirths only.

The case of the woman you refer to, emphasises the need for scans before any pills are given, and ideally them to be taken there and then, which eliminates the possibility of someone stashing or selling them on.

I agree that men shouldn't be allowed to walk away. They've got an easy deal for far too long. But that is a completely different question from whether somebody can legally abort a full term baby

If you were to induce labour you would need to kill the baby before giving birth as once the child is born surely it would be murder

I think going back from abortion pills by post is a step that would also make things harder for more vulnerable women like those in controlling relationships. I can't see that being popular either.

And there are a multitude of reasons that requiring women to turn up to have a scan would preclude them from getting an abortion: domestic abuse, sex trafficking. I’d rather a woman could access the right medication. And on occasions that would mean they weee taken outside of the 10 weeks (as in my case where I was more pregnant than I realised because sometimes, menstruation continues)

We need to prioritise the mental and physical health of the pregnant woman first and foremost.

That skates perilously close to saying 'I want the unborn to have personhood'.

And we all know where that leads.

Ok? My point still stands.

The Antoniazzi amendment passed. Excellent news for women.

@pointythings

Excellent news if you want to roll back abortion rights.

My prediction is that Reform will now use this as a campaign issue. Especially once there is a case where a baby has been aborted after 24 weeks and suffered significant pain.

There will be no more abortion once Reform gain power in 2029.

Assuming Reform will win in 2029 is a massive leap. Latest polls show their lead has narrowed significantly.

Over my dead body. I have just given birth to a little girl. My last C. It would be incredibly dangerous for me to have another. There’s no way my little girl is growing up in a pseudo handmaids tale. No idea what I will do if your scenario does become true. But it’s a hill I am willing to die on for my daughter.

I disagree actually. In the US, abortion is an election issue amongst the right wing. However, the UK is a far less religious society and even amongst the right wing reform voters, I doubt the idea of banning abortion will be popular.

Same here.

I didn't really think about abortion or women's rights much when I was younger.

Now I have 4 daughters and I would, quite literally, die for their rights to their own bodies.

Reform won't win the next GE. By then, their grifting and incompetent council leaders will have made the party so toxic that only the worst of awful people will still vote for them.

The Tories will continue to detonate themselves and the Lib Dems will hoover up moderate Tory voters.

Meanwhile no more women will be prosecuted for having a late miscarriage or a premature labour.

Great news. Thank you.

There will be no more abortion once Reform gain power in 2029.

Everyone should listen to this, take heed and don't vote Reform in 2029.

I completely agree with this. Anyone thinking that women won't be pushed or bullied into late abortions is completely naive, the law is correct as it is. Who on earth are the people posting here who think it's fine to cause suffering and to murder perfectly viable babies? Appalling.
Abortion is legal in Britain up to 24 weeks, so why the suggestions to "decriminalise" it?Medical terminations over these dates are never prosecuted because they ae advised by healthcare professionals. It's like minority groups demanding certain rights when they already have them.

As for those women prosecuted who deliberately had illegal late abortions of healthy babies because they "didn't know they were pregnant". and lied to obtain abortion pills. Yeah right. They deserved to be prosecuted

I don't think most Brits want US far right policies, it's not our culture.