DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

The point you’re missing is making misplaced optimistic statements isn’t adding anything
We don’t know how this will play out,or what her daughter will decide.
Speculation and platitudes won’t guarantee improvement
The daughter will decide if improvement is achievable (or wanted)

Apologise, apologise, apologise. Do not make ANY excuses for yourself. Tell her you know you let her down repeatedly when she was younger but that you love her and you'd love a better relationship with her. Ask her what you can do to achieve that, and do it. And for god's sake, stop asking stupid questions and throwing a strop about the answers.

...I do love her dearly.

My mum, a romantic but also a pragmatist, used to say 'love is about fifty percent proximity'.

You weren't proximate for a lot of your daughter's teens. If you want to re-build - or just build - a relationship with her, you probably need to be nearby. Not popping in all the time, but around, so she can see you should she ever want to. And, because she's so used to not seeing you, it might be years before she does anything about it. But she might, at some point.

If you're not around, she certainly can't.

OP I’ve read all of your posts but not all of the replies so sorry it’ll this has already been said. I strongly recommend that you get some counselling, first just for yourself, and then ask your daughter if she would join you. I think in your position I would send her a message saying that you want to rebuild your relationship and ask her to tell you how her childhood felt to her. You need to listen to her talk without judgment, don’t be tempted to try to defend yourself. Just listen.

How many more times does this women need to be told she messed up for ffs she says it herself in her opening paragraph, she also says that she is not looking to downplay her part in all this.

Do people understand when you have a breakdown you dont think clearly and the recovery is a long, hard and fragile process?

Theres an entitled immaturity in how you relate to your DD and I don’t think you really appreciate how much bridge building you have to do. Your latest contact, is a prime example why your DD has probably kept her distance.

You took her honest opinion to your immature question about her nationality personally and by doing so, you reminded her that once again you view your feelings as the more important.

If you truly want a relationship with your daughter, then I think you should seek professional support to help you reflect on the impact that you’ve had on your DD’s formative years.

OP teenagers often say awful things and hate their parents (temporarily). I suspect she may be having delayed teenage outrage if she felt unable to give you a hard time as a teenager for fear you would hurt yourself.

What you saw as a well behaved, mature teenager could have actually been a terrified, repressed girl who never felt safe enough to unleash at her parents like most people do. So now it’s your turn! And hopefully, as with most families, there is a way through to reconciliation.

Even though it sounded financially privileged, your daughter had quite a chaotic and traumatic upbringing when you consider the totality of everything she went through (including your suicide attempts). It is what it is and you can’t go back and your ex bears a significant amount of responsibility too. Lots of good advice from others on this thread.

I think this is very good advice. Good luck, OP.

In relation to your OP I think you absolutely should not ‘explain’ as this will be read by DD as just an attempt to justify. You should apologise rather than explain and ask her what she would value in your relationship in future and then you need to check in with her much much more, maybe send some thoughtful gifts on occasions or share a nice memory as it arises. These are the things that will build a relationship gradually over time. You cannot expect her to instantly start confiding in you or prioritising your relationship straight away

I wonder if there is an element of needing to grieve the more typical mother/daughter relationship that I expect you hoped you'd have with her.

I'm not going to judge you, I know mental illness isn't something you can "pull yourself together" through, but it sounds like your DD went through some very traumatic experiences. She had to develop coping strategies that involved not relying on you as a mother and I don't know how reversible that is from her perspective.

There's potential for rebuilding but it might not be the same.

The best thing you can do is give a sincere sorry and be there for her now. If you were going to give any explanation about the time while you lived with her but were sad because of your husband having an affair, write it in a letter. But don’t give excuses for moving to another country against her wishes and forcing her to choose from options she didn’t want. She’s your child and you deprioritised her as did your husband.

It’s sad and it can’t be undone.

You can change your behaviour now and prioritise a relationship with her over other things here and now.

Recovery from a neglectful childhood is also a long hard process. So OP paying for counselling for herself and her daughter separately and perhaps, if her daughter wants to, together sounds like a good move.

The thing is she says she messed up but she's also making excuses and not listening to her DD. She needs to listen to what her DD says and not try and 'explain' nor minimise nor try and justify the constant moving and living in different countries as a positive thing when for her DD it clearly wasn't. Plenty of parents break up but choose to live close to each other - often doing jobs they don't like that much and earning less than they could in order to do so - as they put the need of their children for present parents first. There are choices she made that meant she wouldn't be present for her DD, it is extremely likely her DD saw those actions as a lack of love.

The good news is her DD still seems open to a relationship even when her mother asks open questions then doesn't accept her answers. Honestly I don't think putting her 'hurt' about her DD feeling Italian on her daughter is fair on her daughter. It's ok to feel it, of course, but to tell your daughter you're hurt about it, after the childhood she had? Not fair. Just accept what she says - she was asked a question and answered honestly. And yes, as PP have said there are so many potentially outing details about her DD who has not consented to this being made public. Hopefully OP has changed some details so it's not actually as outing as it seems.

The relationship isn't lost OP. I think for the first time you have had an honest conversation and she's told you how she feels. It's now up to you to listen and make the changes to heal the relationship. She sounds like a child to be proud of. Regardless of what has transpired you had a part in that.

I agree with the poster that says you need to find ways to be around. Make plans, visit often (without being overbearing), show that you take an interest in her. Things might settle as she gets older, OP.

Moving around does disrupt the children, especially when they don’t have both parents together. It took me way longer than your 6 months to get my life back on track after abusive DP died and then I’ve sacrificed living the small town suburban life just so that DD could have stability after her father’s death. However even though we’ve settled in the same place for 10 years now, she still is very much affected by those chaotic 2 years of unrest.

I agree with not offering explanations. Nothing you can explain will ever make much sense to her, at least not until she’s older and you’d have to tell her incredibly intimate stuff that I’m not sure it’s appropriate to share with a daughter.

Apologise wholeheartedly. That’s all you can do. And FWIW, my own mother wasn’t exactly… great and now I see in her a very different way. I hold no grudge, it is what it is. I’m not sure why people here seem to think you could have controlled your breakdown. Mental health doesn’t work like that.

I think the first and last paragraphs speak volumes

There was a lot of compromise on both sides, and on DDs

When you talk about compromise you include your dd as having to compromise
The thing is your dd was a little girl, reliant on her parents for stability. She shouldn’t have had to compromise her stability for anyone. If anything if she was happy and settled this shouldn’t have merited a discussion. Never mind moving 2/3rds of your family who didn’t want to move to another country

I have been selfish I know that, it was never intentional and I do love her dearly

How can taking a job in another country (twice) not be considered intentional. Especially when the first time you moved your dd and dh against their wishes and the 2nd time you just took the job and again hoped that everyone would fall in line

I think therapy to analyse your actions and why you did what you did and help for you to realise what affect all these decisions have had on you and each member of your family

I don’t get why you thought your dd would want to go live with you in Paris when she had already made it clear that she had no intention of moving anywhere.

Can you not see that whilst Geneva might have been a happy middle and you say it was for your dd.

It still didn’t stop you taking a job in a different country and then wanted her to move in with you

You mention that Italy wasn’t working for you but was good for your dh and your dd
Why didn’t it work for you

The only correct response here is “I’m deeply sorry you feel that way. Please help me understand how best I can support us to rebuild our relationship.” Take accountability OP.

I’ve only read your posts, OP, I’m sure lots of people have piled on but I just wanted to say I’m sorry you are feeling so bad, it must be horrible.

You have been very selfish, that is clear. All you can do is apologise to her, tell her how proud you are of her, and let her know you will always be there for her if she needs you. And mean it.

Why are you surprised/saddened that she doesn't feel British? Surely you wouldn't expect her to, given she did not grow up in the UK? I think expressing sadness at that probably annoyed her- it wasn't her that decided to move around so much, I don't think you have a right to guilt trip her about not feeling part of your culture, when you chose to live elsewhere! (And perhaps it wasn't your intention to guilt trip her- but this is how it may have come across to her).

I agree with PP, that owning up to your mistakes, and really listening to her, and apologising for your part in it all, is the best way forward. There is still a chance for a relationship between the two of you- but I think it will take a lot of work and sacrifice on your part (and you will have to accept that it will be you that does the running- you can't treat this like a normal adult-adult relationship, as you haven't built that trusting foundation with her).

This, poor kid dragged about from pillar to post for so much of her life. You both sound pretty crap parents tbh. Leave her to forge her own path and stop keeping making everything about you.

I think this is so incredibly wrong of OP to out her own daughter like this. She should go to a therapist instead.

She abandoned her child when life got too hard, and her child experienced a parent attempting to take her life 3 times.

Not getting proper support for her daughter (whether counselling or additional help) particularly as money did not seem to be of concern falls far short of doing your best. Having poor mental health doesn’t absolve you of considering the impact on your children. Both abandonment and living with a parent with poor mental health are recognised adverse childhood experiences.

? I think expressing sadness at that probably annoyed her- it wasn't her that decided to move around so much, I don't think you have a right to guilt trip her about not feeling part of your culture, when you chose to live elsewhere! (And perhaps it wasn't your intention to guilt trip her- but this is how it may have come across to her).

This is what I was trying to say.

If OP wants to have a relationship with her DD she needs therapy to be able to stop putting her emotional baggage onto her daughter - especially about things like this which were the consequence of her own choices! I'm not surprised her DD got up and left.

Only seeing a child 6 times in 3 years even when they're a young adult is really not very much. You can't build a relationship from nothing.

I had parents who were sometimes neglectful (I had a 'golden child' sibling) - though nothing compared to the OP's DD they were both at least present, which I'm appreciating now was a lot. But they have never been around much in adulthood. I notice my peers who have very helpful, actively involved parents and how they sometimes moan about how they're too much - but yet from a place of deep stability and certainty of the love they receive from their parents. I too was always told by my mother how 'independent' and 'resilient' I was - like I had a choice! I definitely didn't.

On one memorable occasion after telling her how terrible things were and how I was feeling the opposite of resilient she said 'oh well, you've always been the resilient one'. The phone did survive, but I did go low contact for a bit after that.

"I have been selfish I know that, it was never intentional and I do love her dearly."

OP - I think you should say exactly this to her. Any explanations/excuses you try to make just won't cut it. So instead of focusing on the past, you need to start building a good relationship from this point forward.

Relationships require time spent together, an interest in the other person and (especially from a parent) huge amounts of love and support. You will need to demonstrate that to her if you want to improve your relationship.

Jesus

Write it down and run your statement by someone with empathy before you ever discuss any of this with your dd.

while I was home I was offered a job in Paris, it made me want to live again and I took it without really thinking.

Your CHILD wasnt enough reason to live but a job in Paris was...?
I know life is nuanced but honestly. Wtaf...