Is having children a moral duty? - Moral Maze

[poppymango]

Not an AIBU but I don’t quite know where else to put it - I just listened to this on BBC Sounds and I found it fascinating and at times a little infuriating. I thought it would make for a good discussion/debate!

“Is having children a moral duty?”

Featuring Ash Sarkar, Sarah Ditum, Giles Fraser, Mona Siddiqui, James Orr, Caroline Farrow, Prof Anna Rotrich, and Prof Lisa Schipper.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002db9t?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Absolutely fascinated to hear the opinions of other mumsnetters.

Exactly this.

Thank you!! To claim something is a moral
when for many the choice to have or not have children is down to luck makes no sense.

Parents pour all their resources into their own kids. As a PP said, making sure your own offspring have their needs met is hardly selfless. Who else are you helping? The childless have more time and money to help others by volunteering etc. not all of them will of course, but I'll bet they're more likely to than parents. You're also creating future old people that will need sustaining, the childless are not-so it all balances out.

Can you explain?

Some are. I would be sorry for there to no longer be any Japanese people, or South Koreans, or Italians.

You actually can. You've been trained to believe otherwise.

No

You actually can. You've been trained to believe otherwise.

This is silly.

I have no idea what this means, can you explain please?

Don't make me explain the logical flaw in what you're picking at here

I don't think so - I think it is pretty remarkable we have a thread here with such a high proportion of people who would be perfectly happy if people stopped having children. I hope these people don't have children, because the future this condemns our children to is very very bleak. No population survives falling below replacement level. You say its silly, but the effects of anti natalist propaganda is clear here. And it's so successful because everyone thinks it's their own idea

Morality isn't dependant on a reciprocal benefit.

This

I would disagree that parents pour resources into their own children. Or rather, in the world were people are still having lots of children, there is an expectation that these children will financially support parents when they are able. Parents are making a short term investment in their own financial future by having children.
This seems to be the thing underpinning the decision to have children or not.
In much of the world money flows down the generations, each child you have costs you a fortune. This isn't just money you have in a cupboard. It's money you have to work long hard hours for. Not entirely coincidentally (imo) these are the countries with collapsing birthdays. In other parts of the world, money flows up the generations. You have a kid and as soon as they are able the culture is that they earn money and a chunk of that gets send back to the parents. This culture partly drives immigration to the west. Better opportunities to earn more money and huge pressure on children to provide for families back home. So as a parent, the more children you have, the more money you will have coming in.
So much of the choice to have children, or not, all over the world, it's all about the money.

if society needs more children then society needs to cover the costs ect for them as a way to encourage people to have them

May be we don’t need to live for a good old age. Around about 70 is enough. I’m all for the orang-utans and insects to take over.

Yes, morality shouldn’t require reciprocity. Doing the ‘right’ thing doesn’t mean it’s easy or personally beneficial, but I do have to understand why it’s the ‘right’ thing in the first place.

Why do we incentivise other moral issues, if not surely to reflect that as a society we value them.

Or are we saying morality is innate rather than learned, in which case I’m not so sure.

No, you don't have to understand it, it just is. Things are moral or they're not - individual persons' understanding of it is neither here nor there.

Hmm, I don’t agree. One person’s morality is different from others. What makes someone more ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ than someone else? Because if we can establish that, then surely we are also establishing what we value as a society. This is then reflected in our behaviours and attitudes, in this case, towards having children.

All I was initially saying was our behaviours and attitudes don’t lead me to believe that parenthood is valued in society. If it isn’t valued, then why would I have a sense of duty to have children? There’s a whole host of reasons why I have a child, and duty or my morality isn’t one of them.

I’m team orangutans and butterflies, or whichever species were mentioned. Humans are a cancer, from a planetary point of view. We bring nothing positive on that level, only destruction.

How conveniently worded - ‘have’ children. I wonder which of the two sexes was involved in formulating that question. It is less physically producing offspring that might be morally required, it is for well socialised, morally upstanding individuals who can contribute to society. You know, that ‘magic wand’ bit that just happens (not). Let’s discuss is there a moral duty to devote our time, effort and resources to raising the next generation. I’d much rather hear that debate. Need to caveat I have not listened - saw Ash Sakar’s name,just no.

Humans are not going extinct. Not remotely.

No it’s not a moral duty and I’m pleased to say we live in a society uk . Where it is acceptable not to have children.
as some cultures hang everything on a woman’s fertility. Which is extremely wrong imho .