Is having children a moral duty? - Moral Maze

[poppymango]

Not an AIBU but I don’t quite know where else to put it - I just listened to this on BBC Sounds and I found it fascinating and at times a little infuriating. I thought it would make for a good discussion/debate!

“Is having children a moral duty?”

Featuring Ash Sarkar, Sarah Ditum, Giles Fraser, Mona Siddiqui, James Orr, Caroline Farrow, Prof Anna Rotrich, and Prof Lisa Schipper.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002db9t?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Absolutely fascinated to hear the opinions of other mumsnetters.

Not listened to this but I am surprised to see people saying they don't like Ash Sarkar. I've always found her funny, interesting and unusually intelligent for a talking head type person. Can't see why people would take against her.

Why is it a positive trait to want to have children? Why is it morally superior? Surely responsible people don't think about wants, they think about whether they and society at large can support a human being in this tough world.

People should only have children if they know it's the right thing to do and that involves a lot of forward thinking.

Why is it a positive trait to want to have children?

it really isn't.

At best it's people trying to make themselves feel better about their own choices.
No one is judgemental because they believe in the greater good - you are only judgmental to try to erase or hide your own failings.

I have kids btw. I am neither superior or inferior because of this. I just happen to have kids.

I don’t consider it a moral duty. If anyone else wants to consider it one, or thinks I’m acting immorally because I’m childfree, then that’s entirely their problem.

yes, yes, and YES

What makes anything morally superior or "good"?

Procreation is surely the primary function of humanity

Not if you don't want to do it?

So you think people who don’t wish to have children are morally defective?

Lots of really horrible even evil people have children. Fred and Rosemary West for example.

No.

It’s not.

Especially if it worsens your life.

What does this mean?

100% THIS!!!

This presumes all those who choose not to have children simply don’t want them.

True for many but there are many who wanted children but due to circumstance realised the morally sensible decision was not to have them / not to have more.

Nobody has children for altruistic reasons, so I struggle with the idea that parents are somehow morally superior

Why is it a moral duty?

We are getting tangled up in circular reasoning here - I said it shouldn't be a moral duty for people to have children (particularly if we don't want them) but for the most of us, we should be trying to form our characters in such a way that we would want to have children and be good parents.

I suspect you didn't answer because you don't know how to, but I'll ask again in case anything comes to mind - what makes something morally good or superior?

My problem with "wanting to" or desire is that, although we feel it is something that's ours, our desire, it's so heavily conditioned, shaped and influenced by our environment and culture - there's nothing moral about it all, because it belongs to those who are pulling our strings. We don't have the power which we feel and believe we do.

If it’s a primary and moral duty then people should be able to get as much free IVF on the NHS as they need. Oh wait….no one would want that would they.

Do we have any moral duties?

What do you mean by “forming our characters to want to have children?”

Lots of awful people want and have children.

Why is it a moral duty to have children.

I honestly took care to try and be as clear as I could in what I said, I'm not sure how to reword, which bit are you puzzled by or unsure of?

You weren’t clear at all.

I asked what you mean when you mentioned people having a moral duty to work on developing the type of character that makes them want to have children.

What does that mean? As in what is the self-work and character required to make people want parenthood.

What does this mean:

”we should be trying to form our characters in such a way that we would want to have children and be good parents.”

@IReallyLoveItHere As older people have the greatest proportion of the wealth, they should be funding the services that they use - not the young. If that cannot be afforded then they should have fewer service available to them.

No-one should have a child unless they have the necessary emotional, financial and personal resources to provide that child with a decent life.

Children are not servants of the old or accessories for their parents. They are people in their own right and deserve to be given what they need to thrive.

I don’t know what you mean either? It sounds like you think people who don’t want to have children are morally defective?

We're heading for a massive disaster - humans have polluted the planet, we over consume, use harmful chemicals, bomb each other, knock down forests to build houses - our ocean's are over heating, countries are literally catching fire.

Currently people are producing too much C02 for the planet and oceans to take which is leading to it being absorbed by oceans which is killing wildlife and coral reefs - this will eventually make the planet uninhabitable. As more and more countries become affected by climate change we will get more climate refugees and more wars as people compete for natural resources. We need to decrease the population of the world rather than increase it. I am a hardcore believer in no more than two kids/pregnancies per couple so that when you factor in the people who chose to have none the population would gradually decrease.

My thoughts exactly.