Is having children a moral duty? - Moral Maze

[poppymango]

Not an AIBU but I don’t quite know where else to put it - I just listened to this on BBC Sounds and I found it fascinating and at times a little infuriating. I thought it would make for a good discussion/debate!

“Is having children a moral duty?”

Featuring Ash Sarkar, Sarah Ditum, Giles Fraser, Mona Siddiqui, James Orr, Caroline Farrow, Prof Anna Rotrich, and Prof Lisa Schipper.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002db9t?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Absolutely fascinated to hear the opinions of other mumsnetters.

Also to add not everybody who chose not to have children did not want them.

Ew.

I see, thanks for taking the time to explain. I was thinking of Aristotles idea of human flourishing, virtue ethics really. I think, for the average person, this will mean a natural desire to have children. There are of course exceptions.

I don’t think the two correlate in anyway.

As we see from the sheer number of awful parents.

No, given we are currently depleting the world's resources in an unsustainable way and driving species extinct, I think it's morally fine to allow the population to reduce a bit by not procreating.

Not everybody who chose not to have children did not want them - so some people who want children choose not to have them, is that what you're saying? Well, yes I imagine that might be the case sometimes, people who want children choosing not to for a variety of reasons... but depending on the reasons, I feel like if people want to, and can, they will... and if they don't really want to, they may cite some reason...

I'm not saying the desire for children is an indicator of properly developed character.

You still haven't explained why you see any correlation between the Nicomachean Ethics and having children, especially as, from my memory of it, Aristotle specifies that 'human flourishing' is not just life in the sense that animals live it, but concerned with the human capacity for reason.

Was this men pontificating on what women should do with their bodies again?

And as I've said on here before, I don't really care if we die out, but there's little chance of that unless Israel and Iran start a nuclear war. Nobody needs to feel they have to have children for the sake of the human race. And in the UK in particular we moan about lack of housing one minute, and then people are moaning about not enough kids the next. A bit of consistency would be nice.

Agreed.

I didn't answer because I believe that personal choice is morally superior to being told that you're entire raison d'etre should be to aim to become a parent.

Righto

Human flourishing is about the embrace of our human-ness though. We flourish when we excel as being human, and as I've said, our primary function is surely reproduction, our replacement, the human race depends on it. As such, parenthood is going to be a significant role. Also, without the experience of parenthood there are certain facets of our character which won't have the opportunity to develop. Not wanting children, in my opinion means something in one's character is out of balance. Feel free to disagree - this opinion clearly annoys people! No idea why

But Aristotle specifically says that his idea of eudaimonia is to do with humans exercising their capacity for reason. Any animal can reproduce. Aristotle says he's not thinking about the capacities humans share with animals. The point of human life would be reproduction if we were just animals, sure, but that's not how A sees a human life lived to its utmost.

And when you say their character is out of balance do you mean that as a negative or positive?

‘I think the choices you made for your life mean you have an undeveloped character which is out of balance’ - yes, can’t think why that might annoy people…

Also, I clearly had an Undeveloped Character Which is Out of Balance for the 22 years of adulthood in which I did not intend to have a child, and suddenly at 40, simply by virtue of deciding to have unprotected sex with my DH and conceiving immediately, I became an Icon of Flourishing Human-ness. While nonetheless being exactly the same person.

Not wanting children, in my opinion means something in one's character is out of balance. Feel free to disagree - this opinion clearly annoys people! No idea why

Well for a start, it's pretty homophobic. Animals also live within nature, whereas humans, to a point, have removed ourselves, so now we need to consider finances, housing etc. There's plenty of animals that don't have young, especially those who live in groups, often it's only the Queen and/or dominant male. How do you know natures not playing a role in more people not wanting children?

As in you agree, or are just being sarcastic/implying I'm weird?

'Righto' sounds condescending but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't care

Astonishes me that we're so keen to herald our own extinction

You shouldn't be exactly the same person once you've had a child. But if we're twisting and warping things for lols I'm out

A moral duty? Hahahah. Why would you even give this air time in your brain?

I think morals should never come into something that affects your body and life the way that pregnancy, childbirth, and child rearing does.
The only people doing it should be those that want to.

This is such an interesting debate.