Is having children a moral duty? - Moral Maze

[poppymango]

Not an AIBU but I don’t quite know where else to put it - I just listened to this on BBC Sounds and I found it fascinating and at times a little infuriating. I thought it would make for a good discussion/debate!

“Is having children a moral duty?”

Featuring Ash Sarkar, Sarah Ditum, Giles Fraser, Mona Siddiqui, James Orr, Caroline Farrow, Prof Anna Rotrich, and Prof Lisa Schipper.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002db9t?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Absolutely fascinated to hear the opinions of other mumsnetters.

It just seems silly to claim it’s a moral duty to have children in a society where there’s no apparent moral duty to value parenthood or particularly motherhood in any significant or effectual way.

🤣 yes, we're at high risk of becoming an endangered species aren't we? Thanks for meaningfully engaging with my reply though.

Would it matter if the human race became extinct? I don’t want living people to suffer but if no one else was born to suffer, maybe that’s not such a bad thing.

I think if we respected each other more, and respected the planet, our existence would be fine.
However, we are killing each other and the planet. We deserve to die out and give all the other living beings and earth, a breather.

This is such an interesting concept.
No women should ever ever be forced to have children.
But I am definitely not of the mindset that the human race should become extinct. That's a very negative and depressing thought.
Ultimately we need the future generations to sustain us in old age to pay taxes for the NHS, doctors and nurses and carers to look after us.
People to fix our roofs and grow our food etc etc
I would argue that, if you are a caring parent, raising children its the most selfless thing you do as you consistently put your childrens needs and welfare first. Being childless means you are often wealthier, have more disposable income and can be fairly self absorbed.
Parents are doing the legwork but the childless will also reap the rewards if having a younger generation to support them In old age without making any of the sacrifices of raising children themselves.
I think parenthood should be valued and supported by society so that people feel they can have children. A lot of people are worried about the financial implications but also want to maintain the same life style, when usually parenthood does involve sacrifice which usually isn't realistic

There's far too many people on the planet already. Yes it might be a struggle for a couple generations but having lots of kids will only make things worse for the planet. Not only that but those kids will be old one day too so it just goes on and on. People choosing not to have kids is a very good thing and imo the more moral of the two.

I don’t really see morality coming into it in either sense. I don’t have kids - but not out of some great sacrifice for the environment, I just like sleeping and didn’t feel any urge to. Same as nobody has kids out of some great sacrificial duty to mankind - you have them because you want them. Both choices are just as self interested as each other, because ultimately as humans that’s what motivates us most.

So you do think that people who don’t want children are lacking in some essential factor that makes them decent human beings. Righto.

Procreation is surely the primary function of humanity

It's hardly common to humanity. One could say the same about snails, or earwigs, or bracken.

This ^

Not wanting children, in my opinion means something in one's character is out of balance

I'm sure the child free could only aspire to be as balanced as, say, Fred and Rosemary West. Or Joseph Fritzl.

Haha, absolutely!

I know I am "out of balance" and is part of the reason I didn't have kids. Whatever that fucking means.

but this is a clear contradiction - 'naturally' as in in your nature, if it isn't in your nature to want children you can't force or train yourself to feel differently!
that's like saying 'It's not wrong to be gay but I think we have a moral duty to become the sort of person who naturally won't want to be gay.'

And why is having children 'morally' better than not anyway?

If we attach a moral value to having kids then we just make life even more shit for those that suffer infertility.

We already get the questions, judgement and patronising responses... Why not tell us we've failed morally too.

If you want to have kids and can, great.

If you don't want kids, great.

I think even having this conversation adds more ammunition for people to pressure women. The Handmaid's Tale is all based on real events and if many men had their way, they would use declining birth rates as a way to sanction rape. (Not that rape really has any consequences at the moment anyway, when you look at conviction rates).

But no matter how you look at it, the only people who suffer are women.

If we want to tackle workplace inequality and also how the medical field fails women, then sure. If we want to put incentives in place for people to have children and to make it easier for women to progress career wise whilst having children and to cope financially then I think that is a worthy conversation.

But let's not penalise women who can't have kids. Or even those who choose not to for any number of reasons.

Some people know they wouldn't be good parents, and that is the responsible choice. Imo they are saving society money when they aren't producing effed up kids that need to be supported by the government, in jail, therapy etc.

Yep I have never wanted kids. Even as a little girl, I said I didn't like babies and didn't want one. Never played with dolls.
Got really upset when we were forced to have the Rubella jab in school so we didn't have deaf/blind babies. I didn't want kids!

Admittedly, I am a drain on society, but even if I was intelligent and in a great job with a great partner... I don't have a moral duty to pump out kids.

Off topic, but your name made me smile. I joined a fisting club once... I wanted to widen the circle of my friends /joke 😁

Putting your own children first being selfish with others does not make you selfless.

You have multiple times and them said lack of having children results in an imbalance in one’s character.

But plenty of people who want them canNOT due to circumstance so forego them. The desire to have children has nothing to do with one’s character development.

My view is that it could be a moral duty but at the same time it's such a personal decision that it would be immoral to compel or convince someone to have children they don't feel a desire for.

Dh and I are in the firmly one and done camp, dh got a vasectomy. Would it have been more socially responsible for me to have 2 to replace me and dh. Probably. Would it have been something I wanted to do? No.

So I am having one son and sticking to it.

A lot of whether you can have kids is down to luck (not having fertility problems, meeting a partner at the right time etc). Therefore I think the idea that it's a 'moral duty' to have them is wrong and actually quite offensive. It's basically saying that if you don't have kids, you are an immoral person. Many of the people without children that I know are hardworking, kind and very thoughtful people who contribute a lot to society in other ways.

Well, if it is, then

🎵 I'm going to hell
I'm going to hell
Ee-ay-o my daddio
I'm going to hell 🎵

It’s not the opinion that’s annoying. It’s your inability to be clear as to what you mean.

I would be interested to listen to this. I’m presuming that feeding new workers into the machine (to support a top heavy aging population) is part of it and that depresses me.

Humans aren’t going extinct.

Parent don’t choose to become parents for altruistic reasons. They have kids because they want them.