Still in nappies at school

[ivehearditallthistime]

As the title says some children at 4-5 and 6 years old are going to school in nappies and are still not potty toilet trained.
I understand that some will and still have accidents at night and during the day.

But to have a child at that age still in nappies is just laziness.
It is not a teachers job to change nappies is it.
Ive just got back from my sisters whos son has a 4&5 year old still in nappies the school said he or the mum will have to come in school to change them as the teachers will not.

They now think this is all wrong and it is the teachers job.
And are removing both kids from school one does half day and going to home school.
I said no its your job stop being so f=ing lazy if home schooling is anything like your potty training good luck.

My eldest sister a teacher agrees with it and said this is happing more and more now.
A mum in her school has taken her child out of school because teachers will not change her childs nappy hes almost 6.
Said mum had a rant at the school because the school reported it to SS.

Dose anyone agree this is just lazy parenting now.

At least my kids can use a toilet be ause I've not spent 5 years using COVID as an excuse 👍

The OP should keep her nose out of other people’s business though. Most children aren’t diagnosed until they are much older than 5. Imagine having such a sad life that you have to judge little kids for their toilet habits

But how do you know there isn’t a medical reason? Does the child wear a badge, do the teachers tell you? Have they just not been diagnosed, as most children aren’t diagnosed at 5 years old? Also I can remember being in school 33 years ago and someone was in nappies. So yes it did happen years ago, you just didn’t have bitter judgemental parents crying and posting about it on the internet

Absolutely. With each of mine I took a week off with the purpose of toilet training. DD1 was toilet trained by lunchtime of the first day, so was a bit of a waste of annual leave though 😅

The reception teacher themself.
Are you suggesting I am making it up.

My daughter would absolutely refused to sit on the potty at that age (yes I started at two). She also wouldn't poo in the potty or toilet. Preferred her underwear until five. We did try! It isn't always laziness.

When ours started school, there was information from the school about what a child was expected to be able to do before starting school (putting aside autism etc). Toileting was top of the list, but also ability to fasten their own coat/ put their own clothes on. And if a child was at school and couldn't use the toilet independently, then parents would be contacted.

Ds (adhd) was daytime potty trained by 3, but had night time enuresis until he was about 6 I think. We ended up having to use an alarm, which worked really well. Dd (autistic) was potty trained both day and night by 2.5. She literally couldn't wait to use the toilet (and actually went straight from nappies to toilet). My theory is that she despised the sensory side of wearing nappies. But clearly all SEN children are different, and I'm assuming op isn't talking about SEN children.

No, I'm just wondering why a reception teacher would be telling you who does or doesn't have SEN if you are just a parent at the school. Or do you work at a school?

We tried to potty train our girl at 2.5, but she was just not ready at all. She couldn't tell us she needed to go, we couldn't persuade her to go, she was having accidents literally every hour, even when promoting her every half an hour to go to the toilet. It was a nightmare, she was crying, we were frustrated, so we went back to nappies.

We waited, tried again when she'd just turned 3.5 and she got it within half a day for wee, but it took her several months, and several sticker charts and Sylvanian Families to convince her to poo in the toilet and she has no additional needs we are aware of.

Sometimes children just aren't ready when we expect them to be, or it takes longer than expected. I don't think that's lazy parenting at all, just responding to your child's needs.

This was pretty much the information I got.

When my son was young we did try toilet training and it just caused withholding issues both urinary and bowel withholding.

Then we got told to wait for signs of readiness by our HV, this was during covid when HVs couldn't come to your home. They did a basic questionnaire about milestones, which he was missing quite a lot of and the HV said don't worry most children she's encountered are missing a lot of these milestones because of isolation, but to keep doing that we're doing and he'll catch up.

Then when he started nursery we were told what are you on about don't wait for signs of readiness. My head was spinning. So we tried again and his withholding issues got worse.

When he started school aged 4 the school referred us to their HV who was so lovely and she'd come to our house. By this point we had received an autism diagnosis already. The HV would observe us and the issues we were having and she finally said she hasn't got anymore ideas and referred us to ERIC for a webinar specifically for SEN children.

The webinar couldn't have been more confusing or contradictory.

Don't wait for signs of readiness, go to a schedule and build a routine... except if your child shows signs of anxiety and then a routine can just cause apprehension. Always change your child in the bathroom without exception so they can learn the bathroom is where we do our business... except if bathrooms are sensory nightmares for your child and cause distress. Completely get rid of nappies and move over to pants... except if your child withholds and then always make sure they have access to nappies or pull ups. Always give lots of praise to your child as they respond better with rewards... unless your child is demand avoidant or hates being perceived like many autistic children and then never reward them because it highlights they're doing something and they will probably stop doing it. Always go straight to a toilet and never use a potty because transitions can be stressful... unless they need a potty because the transition to the bathroom can be stressful.

Like the information we were given was all sort of common sense things. I'm sure it benefitted some people, but I know many, like me, have already observed these struggles in their children and have already come to these conclusions themselves which is why we were desperately watching for advice.

Half the webinar was spent plugging their own products but not actually explaining why they were helpful.

Eta: oh the other one they advised. Always put the poo from the nappy into the toilet and let your child watch.

Well all this did for us was encourage smearing. My child who never smeared before started taking the poo out of his nappy because he realised it was something he could move about instead.

Anecdotally it does seem to be something that is on the increase and posters are justified to have a conversation about it IMO. Not to call parents lazy though!

I work at a school - happy now.

Is there a correlation between today's instant gratification expectations and the difficulties with potty training. I don't recall either of mine showing ready signs and starting a two week "programme".

DS got a potty for his 2nd birthday - wrapped up and put in the toybox. And big boy psmts. Potties also appeared in the other loos in the house. The process of familiarisation started. A daily conversation. He was sat on a potty when he got up, after lunch, when he'd done a poo, etc. A trial run 2 and three months. Not ready, not interested. Ditto two years 6 months. I recall thinking eek it will be winter soon and harder. At 2yrs 8 months he just said "big boy, want pants". When we were going out he refused the nappy. I packed a change of clothes. At the supermarket checkout, "Need a wee wee". Dashed to the loo. That was it, he never faltered. However, for at least another few months he liked a nappy for a poo and then transitioned that to the loo. He was reliably dry at night a month later.

DD was a month older. The potty was not a problem but the transition to the loo was later and she was scared of falling down it but she was happily using the loo by about 3 and three quarters and entirely reliable by 2.9. I had to lift her at bedtime for the potty - more related to the big mug of milk she had at bedtime.

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of day to day ground work is necessary to make it happen. Much the same as speech, learning their letters, their buttons, their colours, etc. They aren't just ready but for most children it's a parental responsibility.

I'm not sure why you need to be snippy, it was just a question. It initially sounded like a teacher was telling a parent who is or isn't potty trained which sounded odd which is why I asked.

That's all.

The problem is that children like mine (or actually, their parents) end up being stigmatised because it is impossible to tell whether it is just parental laziness or a medical condition. My son has no other diagnosed special needs. He is a completely normal boy by all other accounts. And again, with encopresis not well known and talked about, I am not surprised of the judgment.

Don't get me started on ERIC... we asked to check advice on their website due to my son's encopresis. Over time, we tried all of their advice and nothing worked (or at times, their advice is unrealistic). But this is not to dismiss them - it may work for some, and they do of course have the child's welfare at heart. However, if one more healthcare professional says "Why don't you have a look at the ERIC website' I am going to SCREAM!

I felt that I got much more medically founded advice from the Bowel & Bladder UK helpline - but again, that's just my perception.

The tripple whammy of encopresis is that 1) it has no lobby so not known, 2) it is associated with mucky stuff (poo) 3) it is a chronic but not deadly condition. If you treat diabetes incorrectly, child might die. If you don't treat cancer, child likely to die. If you don't treat encopresis or take the perspective of much of the health system that it doesn't matter enough, your child won't die. It will just get miserable and drag their parents into a mental health decline. And get judgment piled on you by other parents, teachers and so on. Because they don't understand.

I don't wish this condition on anyone. We are in a good (well, better) place now, but for a long term my happiness was determine by whether my son did a big poo in the morning (normally meant a day with little soiling) or not.

NEW PERSPECTIVE!

I was at primary school in the late 80s and remember lots from Reception class.

I remember that there was often more than one wee accident every single day and this meant that the teachers’ assistant had to go and change the child into their PE kit, sending the child home with all of their clothes in a supermarket bag.

The fact that it happened so often (though never to me!) is probably why I can remember it.

There was one kid in particular who had an accident every single day.

No one in my class was in nappies.

I wonder whether it’s now that parents will
put “accident prone” kids into a pull-up to spare their blushes, as accidents back then were very public affairs and usually accompanied by the victim child crying loudly while other children pointed and told the teacher loudly that “X has had an accident!”

Both of my DC were trained before school.

Ironically, the one who cracked it in the day having turned just 2 is still in DryNites at 9, not through laziness but through need.

The other also managed it at 2 but still wanted a nappy to poo in until 3 until we did the whole transitioning thing (sitting on the toilet in a nappy) but was also dry at night at 2.5.

They are all different.

Also, I don’t think SEN kids were in mainstream school in the 80s like they are now.

No easy answer.

We have a lot in common! My son's bowel doesn't absorb very well and he's now also bowel incontinent so a lot of my time is now spent changing him and looking for signs that his poo doesn't look right and if he needs to go to the hospital.

We are mostly in a better place too, his diet is less restricted and he is also on less medication and we are largely able to manage his needs at home now.

The advice on when to train has changed very recently. My children are still at primary school (the youngest is only 6), and when we trained them you were told to wait for signs of readiness.

It’s not more common we just hear about it more now thanks to social media. No one has the right to call anyone lazy unless they know their circumstances. Just a bunch of busy bodies with nothing better to do with their own lives sadly. I’m sure there is worse going on in the world than a 5 year old in a nappy. Lots of children used to have accidents back in the day, I’m sure if nappy pants were available then they would have been used too, to save the clean up and embarrassment

But you've literally just described waiting for ready signs 😂😂 you tried it, it didn't work, you tried again, it didn't work, so you waited until your child told you he was ready and then it was successful...

My teacher friends say it definitely is on the increase @C36M and it is often a topic of conversation for them along with other changes they are facing.

Sorry to hear this. Sending solidarity. Happy to PM to rant together!

It's not discriminating against the child, it's holding the parents responsible for what they should be doing. I seriously don't understand why some people have children at all if all they want to do it palm them off to other people! I quite like dogs but have never had one because I couldn't be bothered with all the walkies etc..