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Great article in the Guardian about wokeism

337 replies

inkognitha · 11/06/2025 08:51

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

Good morning everyone.
Today, even the Guardian admits woke isn’t working.

« Yet Progressive Activists’ fatal flaw, the report argues, is that they’re further from mainstream public opinion on cultural issues than they realise. They’re the only group where a majority thinks that immigration should be as high or higher than it is now, and that protecting people from hate speech matters more than defending free speech (a key rationale behind “no debate” – the idea that trans identities aren’t up for discussion – and “no platforming”). They’re also the group most likely to think social change sometimes requires breaking the law, whereas two-thirds of Britons disapprove of protesters blocking roads or gluing themselves to things.
Tryl stresses that being outliers doesn’t invariably make Progressive Activists wrong – perhaps they’re just ahead of the curve, as the suffragettes once were – but it has important tactical implications. His polling shows that Progressive Activists overestimate by a factor of two to three how much others agree with their core beliefs, from abolishing the monarchy to letting children change gender. Consequently they tend to invest too little time on persuasion, focusing instead on mobilising the masses they wrongly imagine are on board. “If you’re reaching out to people, then you’re watering down,” is how Tryl describes this mindset.
While successful campaigns usually build the broadest base possible, Progressive Activists also tend to be purists, rejecting supporters who don’t endorse a complete worldview. (More than a quarter wouldn’t campaign alongside someone who believes – as a majority of Britons do – in Israel’s right to exist, for example.) Their yearning for grand systemic change means they can sound dismissive of other people’s small but well-meaning efforts, and they’re also unusually keen on correcting other people’s “mistakes” on diversity issues, something other groups consider likely to cause embarrassment. »

I hope some of the keyboard warriors/bullies roaming this board and the blue-haired, nose-pierced authoritarians will have a read, and at last, a think on how they do more harm than good.

How does woke start winning again? | Gaby Hinsliff

The long read: British progressives have suffered major setbacks in recent years, in both public opinion and court rulings. Was a backlash inevitable, and are new tactics needed?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:16

Screamingabdabz · 12/06/2025 09:06

I think some animals are more equal than others when it comes to wokeism. That’s when for me, it is all about the priorities of youth, rather than genuine care for the disadvantaged.

So elderly people for example, who are being increasingly excluded from society by changes in technology - no one gives a shiny shit about them and their ‘rights’ (despite age being a protected characteristic) - I wonder how many EDI courses mention them?

And black women, get a raw deal in most bites of the cherry statistically but they’ve got to hit all points of intersectionality seemingly to even get a mention.

But if you’re a Brazilian trans sex worker WOW. You hit the jackpot. Every EDI course in every office up and down the country wants to focus on your needs and demands.

Are there many Brazilian trans sex workers in the UK office workforce, statistically speaking?

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 09:19

@crackofdoom
I always thought that "antifa" was a general term for anyone opposed to fascism.

Yes you’ve missed quite a lot if you thought it meant that.

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:20

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:16

May I add, if you want people to come around to your way of thinking, insulting them isn’t the way to do it…

As a blue haired, not nose pierced, occasional authoritarian with my DC, I wholeheartedly agree. You absolutely lost me when you started on the insults.

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:21

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 09:19

@crackofdoom
I always thought that "antifa" was a general term for anyone opposed to fascism.

Yes you’ve missed quite a lot if you thought it meant that.

OK, looking forward to being provided with more concrete information on this! 😊

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 12/06/2025 09:21

‘It's a concept invented by fat white old men on the internet who want to be racist and sexist and get away with it, and by far right plutocrats and their minions who want to cause hatred, fear and division in society,’

So that’s a no, then ?

Nowayyousure · 12/06/2025 09:21

EmpressaurusKitty · 11/06/2025 10:08

Are you saying that when a convicted violent criminal tells huge crowds that they should be punching gender critical women, that’s just disagreement?

This. Whilst pretending he's the vulnerable one. Despicable behaviour, enabled by many.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:23

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:21

OK, looking forward to being provided with more concrete information on this! 😊

Have posted link

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:25

Oh, OK, as I thought. They're anti fascists and march against fascist, hard right and white supremacist organisations. With roots in the groups in 1920s and 30s Germany who fought hard to try and stop Hitler gaining power.

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:29

Absolutely this.

There are millions of people (of all backgrounds) that are hurting in this country at the moment. People struggling to put food on the table, facing homelessness, unable to afford decent childcare for their kids, barely able to afford spiralling rental
costs, fuel costs, food costs, some are breaking their backs working long shifts, aren’t able to afford breaks away, and generally are just fed up with the state of the country. At the same time, they’re being told they are ‘privileged’ and they need to care more about people seeking asylum or the environment. They don’t have the luxury to care when they can barely see past getting through until payday.

Wokism seems to be all about being ‘trendy’ - which ‘marginalised’ group can I support vehemently online so everyone thinks I’m a good person? Meanwhile, we have a homelessness problem but as the majority of people living on the streets are white males, it’s not ‘trendy’ to care.

Nowayyousure · 12/06/2025 09:29

TopographicalTime · 12/06/2025 08:58

I stopped reading the Guardian due to it's misogyny. Pushing trans ideology whilst ignoring the impact on women is misogyny. Celebrating 'activists' like violent criminal male Sarah Jane Baker (convicted of kidnap & torture, then whilst in prison tried to murder another prisoner) is totally unacceptable. They need to go much further and admit that a lot of trans activists are simply misogynist men's rights activists and sadly some are motivated by sexual interests in children (such as paedophile John Rennie, founder of LGBT youth scotland and many other cases)

💯 this.

The Guardian need to apologise for their huge errors. They were/are so wrong. I wouldn't touch the rag now.

GeneralPeter · 12/06/2025 09:31

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:25

Oh, OK, as I thought. They're anti fascists and march against fascist, hard right and white supremacist organisations. With roots in the groups in 1920s and 30s Germany who fought hard to try and stop Hitler gaining power.

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

That's not "as you thought". The meaning of antifa you were claiming to believe would include Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin. No-one uses the term that way.

Reminds me of the children who would call others 'gay' at school and when challenged would say: "but gay just means happy!".

Support antifa or not, or hold some more nuanced view. But have the courage to engage in actual debate not sophestry.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:32

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:20

As a blue haired, not nose pierced, occasional authoritarian with my DC, I wholeheartedly agree. You absolutely lost me when you started on the insults.

Where did I insult anyone? We’ve already been called racist and homophobic on page 2…

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:35

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:25

Oh, OK, as I thought. They're anti fascists and march against fascist, hard right and white supremacist organisations. With roots in the groups in 1920s and 30s Germany who fought hard to try and stop Hitler gaining power.

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

Yes, I did suspect your query about them wasn't in good faith; I was right. Fascists are intolerant and discriminatory. I guess threatening women, who fight for single sex spaces, amongst other basic rights, don't feature in Antifa's group of people who need support.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:35

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:32

Where did I insult anyone? We’ve already been called racist and homophobic on page 2…

Don't forget ageist.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:38

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:35

Don't forget ageist.

Oh yes, that too

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 09:38

spoonbillstretford · 11/06/2025 09:40

That's called disagreeing with people who have different views from you.

Wokeism is not a consistent movement consisting of all the people you don't agree with.

It's a concept invented by fat white old men on the internet who want to be racist and sexist and get away with it, and by far right plutocrats and their minions who want to cause hatred, fear and division in society, while pretending to support the poor working class people, while laughing at us and taking more of our money.

You are wrong about the origin of the term 'woke'. It was born out of the black community's civil rights fight in the US.

All it means at its heart is literally to have one's eyes open to systemic injustices. You can't address inequalities and injustice unless you see the problem in the first place.

In any group of people, you'll find wankers for sure. Any movement anywhere, any religion or political grouping will have people who try and impose a bigoted agenda. But that's not what woke is about. Ditch the word if you like but personally I will stick to its intention.

I'd rather be woke than sleepwalk into fascism.

Look who's perverting and killing democracy from the inside and tell me if you really think they're the future of mankind...

FOJN · 12/06/2025 09:44

Wokism seems to be all about being ‘trendy’ - which ‘marginalised’ group can I support vehemently online so everyone thinks I’m a good person? Meanwhile, we have a homelessness problem but as the majority of people living on the streets are white males, it’s not ‘trendy’ to care.

Exactly. Wokism is a middle class hobby, it's all about virtue signalling whilst not actually upsetting the status quo in any meaningful way. Campaigning to eradicate manufactured victimhood means you never have to get involved in finding solutions to real and complex problems.

ArtTheClown · 12/06/2025 09:44

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

Antifa like to show up masked at women's rights demonstrations and hurt people.

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 09:45

Nowayyousure · 12/06/2025 09:29

💯 this.

The Guardian need to apologise for their huge errors. They were/are so wrong. I wouldn't touch the rag now.

What do you read nowadays? Genuinely and neutral question.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:47

ArtTheClown · 12/06/2025 09:44

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

Antifa like to show up masked at women's rights demonstrations and hurt people.

I am very dubious about anybody who outwardly shows their support for the vile group, especially if they are a woman.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:49

FOJN · 12/06/2025 09:44

Wokism seems to be all about being ‘trendy’ - which ‘marginalised’ group can I support vehemently online so everyone thinks I’m a good person? Meanwhile, we have a homelessness problem but as the majority of people living on the streets are white males, it’s not ‘trendy’ to care.

Exactly. Wokism is a middle class hobby, it's all about virtue signalling whilst not actually upsetting the status quo in any meaningful way. Campaigning to eradicate manufactured victimhood means you never have to get involved in finding solutions to real and complex problems.

Completely agree. It’s usually more to do with the individual’s ego than it is helping an actual cause.

Before the internet, you’d have to work pretty hard within your community to be seen as moral. You’d need to be good to your family, your friends etc. People’s positive opinions of you would take a while to build up to them seeing you as a good person.
You can get instant virtue now - post the right flag on your profile, the right hashtag on your updates, hound a small bunny charity in wales and try to stop their funding because they accidentally followed the wrong account on TwiX….

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:58

I used to consider myself left wing. Perhaps left of centre would be closer to the truth. When wokism first came in, I was all for it. It all seemed so reasonable.
More equality for women? I’m in!
No discrimination based on race? Absolutely!
Free and fair society for all? I’m on board!

But then it started to grow legs, started to creep so far to the left that it started becoming a little sinister. The TRA movement is a good example of this. People being told they’re privileged when they’re really not.

Now it’s gone so far that it’s on the brink of collapsing under its own absurdity. They’ve taken the political spectrum so far to the left that, without moving, I’m now apparently right of centre.

And people wonder why Reform are gaining so much traction. They fucked it. We had a sweet spot, and then they fucked it up so much that we will end up going backwards.