AIBU to be utterly baffled at how many people are falling for Reform after the Brexit mess?

[TheCoralShaker]

I’m not into any political party or ideology – honestly, they all seem like varying shades of grifters to me – but I just can't believe how many people are jumping on the Reform bandwagon like it's some magic fix.

After everything that happened with Brexit – the lies, the infighting, the broken promises, the economic fallout we’re still wading through – how are people still falling for this kind of simplistic, shouty politics? The "common sense" soundbites, the "tell it like it is" nonsense, the constant scapegoating of whatever group is most convenient that week... it's all so transparent.

I'm not saying any of the main parties are perfect (far from it), but Reform seems to be just a bunch of media-savvy populists spouting whatever will get the loudest headlines. What’s worrying is how many people lap it up without even questioning what’s actually being proposed, or whether it’s remotely feasible.

Where are the critical thinking skills? Why are people so easily seduced by these pantomime figures who tap into anger and offer no real substance? It’s like the more outrageous someone is, the more they’re celebrated, and never mind whether any of it makes sense.

I get that people are frustrated, disillusioned, sick of the status quo, so am I. But falling for another bunch of opportunists who thrive on division and offer nothing beyond slogans seems like doubling down on the same mistake.

AIBU to think that we should have learned by now? Or is this just how politics is going to be from now on, performative outrage and no actual plan?

Is he anti-abortion? I thought he said that there was a discussion to be had on termination deadlines in light of progress made in preserving premature babies.

And then it fell flat because nobody was interested and there's no appetite for it. But he isn't anti-abortion from a principle of disagreeing with the practice.

Personally, I think how things stand is fine. I absolutely don't think anyone should be rocking the boat because we seem to have arrived at a reasonable position without much politicisation.

Actually, many of us could, and can still, see their advantages of leaving the EU.

Immigration is only going to get worse as certain countries snd areas cannot sustain the amount of people living there. It needs addressing urgently- we need all the pressure we can muster and help anyone can provide to sort it out. It’s a ticking time bomb regarding way of life and resources.

@MargoLivebetter PR would be fantastic, as would joined up thinking - but I agree not in our lifetimes!
I get frustrated because I have lived abroad mainly europe but some things are good and some are bad, but mainly because of a multitude of things they don't seem to get in the mess that we do.
French long distance trains, fantastic - but the commute into Paris nightmare, just like any other big city with people commuting in - some people live in cloud cuckoo land, some still in the 70's some still in the 50's
Firstly we need to make people responsible for their own actions, rather than shouting the most.
Secondly we need to really encourage community engagement - work from the ground up rather than all this shouty nonsense - all it is, is a political version of keeping up with the joneses!

I would suggest shooting them all (well perhaps a 20% cull every few years, like badgers) but I'm sure some badger supporting lot would then say i'm doing a misservice.....

Seems in bad taste to joke about killing off MPs.

I’m fairly sure that one of Reform’s policies is to switch to proportional representation

Immigration isn't going anywhere as we have an ageing population. Or do people think we will turn away from capitalism?

It's definitely a libdems policy. Not sure Davies has done a sky dive about it yet though.

It doesn’t take a leap of faith to see how shops selling vapes, sweets and 160mg caffeinated energy drinks to 12-year-olds—shops ften under names like Candy and Vapes—could pose a serious risk to the stability of a peaceful town. Just a few weeks ago, the school sent an email warning that some vapes had been found laced with drugs. There are also growing concerns that these shops may be involved in money laundering. Are we witnessing a new form of county lines?

Yes, it may seem hysterical to you but to me I see something more sinister playing out here.

@ThePhantomoftheEcobubbleOpera as Ricky Gervais always says if you can't joke about horrendous things, then what is the point of jokes. It is clear that @Lonelydave is joking!!!!! Surely you can see that.

Populist is too benign a word. What's going on in the US is not populist, we're way beyond that.

We might have an aging population but with the advent of AI we will need less and less young people because most people will need some form of government assistance.

@WhereIsMyJumper yes, in the Reform manifesto they do say that a referendum is needed to consider Proportional Representation, after we've left the European Convention of Human Rights (first on the list) and outlawed postal votes and reformed the House of Lords and Civil Service. They will definitely be very busy when they get elected.

AI will help but it won't solve the fundamental economic. issue. Plus I remember when the internet meant we would all have more free time 😆

@ThePhantomoftheEcobubbleOpera @MargoLivebetter yes completely a joke, but with the addition of someone who doesn't understand the badger issue would be more upset about killing of a badger than an MP - its the whole upside downness of it all!

And if you cant get the irony of it then I apologise.

Again, missing the point of my previous posts, a slight joke, someone takes the wrong idea and then jumps on it - rather than reading the whole narrative, grab the bit, go out of context and get all upset.

I've been mentioning grown up thinking, working together, create proper infrastructure etc..,

In our county, the new "Reform" leader is the same guy who was the "Tory" leader until about six months ago before he resigned from the party, so if he was good and experienced enough to run the council upto last year, I presume he's still good and experienced enough to run it from now until the next election. They're not all novices at all. Several of our current Reform councillors have experience from being councillors in the past.

People said the same when computers became widely available in businesses. Didn't happen then either. Yes, some jobs will disappear, but others will appear, some of which we don't even know exist yet. Look at social media influencers, web designers, etc - jobs which didn't exist 30 years ago!

And I'm sure they'll be great.

Don't forget

dismantling the NHS
restricting abortion rights
getting rid of the local government pension scheme

But voting for Reform is only going to invite an even more incompetent lot to take power, with possibly catastrophic consequences -as we can see across the pond. The notion that change = hope is completely irrational. There's no guarantee that change will be for the better and judging by the failure of brexit to bring about any positives, giving Reform the benefit of the doubt seems especially illogical.

So people were apparently turning away from the parties that had previously run the councils (often Tory) by voting for Tory councilors who re-stood as Reform candidates! What a mess.

@MyHeartyCoralSnail your posts make alot of sense. We have 5-6 million people on out if work benefits costing a fortune so the idea we need to import yet more low skilled people (many of whom are not culturally compatible) is ridiculous. And a very % of the Boris wave were actually workers anyway. Also the idea that tory/Labour mps and councillors are highly competent as opposed to amateur Reform ones is also ridiculous, many/most mps have never done a day's work in the real world whereas Reform mps/councillors seem to be more small business owners etc. In fact people criticise Farage for having outside earnings when reality is most Labour MPs would earn alot less in the business world.

People criticise Farage for exploiting his position whilst neglecting his duty as an MP. He did the same as an MEP but it seems people don't care.

@MyHeartyCoralSnail 1 in 5 NHS workers are immigrants. Do you consider them low skilled? Have you looked at the list of jobs on the Immigration Salary List? None of them look particularly low skilled to me.

Many of those people in the UK who are long term unemployed do not have any of the skills to fill the jobs that we currently allow immigrants to apply for from overseas. How are you going to train the long-term unemployed to do them? Where will the funds for that come from and how long will it take? The other main reasons for long term unemployment is ill health and caring responsibilities. Any thoughts on how those two issues could be addressed?

Completely true. However I have examined the people I know who voted for Reform and they are indeed... thick. I have tried to have rational conversations about policies with them and it's simply not possible - they barely understand the word policies and are voting based upon the cult of personality which, let's be honest, is the only reason Farage is where he is. The same people voted Brexit and couldn't give me a decent reason for that either - one cousin, genuinely, told me he was voting Brexit because he felt there were too many Indians around him... I wish I were lying.

I don't want to believe such a vast swathe of Britain could effect such a potential disaster simply by being stupid but the evidence is against me. I understand and largely agree with the argument for disruptors and a protest vote etc., but again, examining those around me, that's not what's going on. I'm absolutely prepared to accept that many Reform voters are playing strategically, I hope they are, but yet again, among the people I know that's NOT what's happening. I don't want to just call all my cousins Harry and Lloyd but when I try and have a sensible conversation about it, they're metaphorically trying to light their farts. So no, I'm not entirely convinced that a strategic Reform vote to persuade the traditional parties to pull their socks up is going to save middle England from evil Albanian shopkeepers selling Monster and vapes to teenagers etc. Or from Trump.

On the other hand I am an eternal optimist and what I do see is a gap in the market for something new and different. Something to fill the hole between the existing parties, something run by smarter people than those currently in charge (because there surely must be plenty out there - what we currently have available simply aren't the best of the best). Maybe there are even some people with brains and integrity who may consider becoming politicians?! How novel that would be.

How many people fail for Tory lies.
How many people fail for Labour lies.
Therefore I believe people will fall for Reform lies.
They're all as useless as each other, make false promises in their manifestos and look after themselves.