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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Children are a lifestyle choice

173 replies

Seriouslywhatnow · 10/06/2025 17:14

I've actually lost count of the times I've read this on Mumsnet. Posters saying things like "I don't want to have to pay towards little Jonny's education/ food / maternity care. People should t have kids they can't afford"
It's like they can't see that these children are actually PEOPLE. in their own right. And you're not paying for their education as a favour to their "feckless" -it's always "feckless" - parents but FOR THE CHILD. Just like your education /maternity care / whatever was paid for by others as well.
So many people seem to see kids as just an accessory or possession for their parents, and actually like they were never kids themselves so shouldn't have to pay towards other kids. AIBU?

OP posts:
ffsfindmeausername · 10/06/2025 19:01

LeaCFBC · 10/06/2025 17:44

Children are , in the west,very much a lifestyle choice. The single most environmentally damaging action any Westerner can make, is to have a child. If more people did actually understand that the aim is not to have a little baby , but a well formed, responsible adult in short time...they might think more carefully. 2 children max in the West, I completely agree with. The situation is very different in the developing world, where child mortality is still at obscenely low levels, women do not have rights or birth control,and each birth doesn't generate tonnes of plastic and consumables.
The tragedy that 5 million children died before their 5th birthday in the developing world in 2022 ..Unicef reports...yet people in the West must have their own genetic babies,at any cost , with all the capitalist consumerism and pollution that entails...preys on ny mind a lot.
For Westerners, it's most definitely a lifestyle choice. This planet doesn't need any more people for at least 50 years, but the rampant capitalist machine does. And most people just carry on feeding the machine, thinking their children are somehow special 🤷‍♀️

Westerners have very few children, all western countries now have a birth rate well below replacement levels. The amount of women I personally know that are childless and are now too old to have children in their mid 40s & 50s is astonishing. It seems dogs are replacing children in my part of the western world.

XenoBitch · 10/06/2025 19:02

ffsfindmeausername · 10/06/2025 19:01

Westerners have very few children, all western countries now have a birth rate well below replacement levels. The amount of women I personally know that are childless and are now too old to have children in their mid 40s & 50s is astonishing. It seems dogs are replacing children in my part of the western world.

My dog is not replacing a child for me, as I never wanted a child anyway.

privatenonamegiven · 10/06/2025 19:02

It's interesting how as a society we seem to have moved from having children as a duty to having children is a lifestyle choice... I put bets on it moving again towards only the wealthy are allowed soon the way we are going..I find it all a bit depressing.

baggybags · 10/06/2025 19:02

Westerners have very few children, all western countries now have a birth rate well below replacement levels.

I'm not sure why so many don't get the above, is it an age thing?

Charlize43 · 10/06/2025 19:06

I think Cats are cheaper.

Also having seen so many mothers with their heads buried in their phones, while their kids run amok at the bus stop, definitely cats would have been a better option. They can sleep 16 hours a day, cats not kids.

baggybags · 10/06/2025 19:07

Kill a lot of birds though, 60million a yr ish.

Kelticgold · 10/06/2025 19:09

privatenonamegiven · 10/06/2025 19:02

It's interesting how as a society we seem to have moved from having children as a duty to having children is a lifestyle choice... I put bets on it moving again towards only the wealthy are allowed soon the way we are going..I find it all a bit depressing.

Oh yes of course, it seems that only “the right people” should have children.

Same with having some dignity in later life. “Unable to afford carers? No worries, we’ve got assisted dying for you”.

Idoidoidoidoidoido · 10/06/2025 19:09

There’s an article in the BBC news today on this exact issue. Globally, declining birth rates are becoming a real issue.

TorroFerney · 10/06/2025 19:10

mydogisthebest · 10/06/2025 17:24

Of course children are a lifestyle choice. No one has to have children and no one has them for the supposed good of the country/planet. They have them because they WANT a child even sometimes when it is not a good choice to make

Agree, choice and a biological drive. It's entirely selfish. And I say that as a parent. No one is getting pregnant in the UK for the good of society - how do you know your child won't end up in prison costing the taxpayer loads, you've no idea. That, if you are fortunate your child may be one who contributes to society yes that's true.

WomanOfSteel · 10/06/2025 19:11

XenoBitch · 10/06/2025 18:18

Yes, because everyone knows all the financial details of their neighbours. It is an old and tired trope on here. Give it a rest.

I know plenty of people like this. I went to school with them. I drink in the same pubs as them. They’re not at all embarrassed to have never worked a day in their life and they take the piss out of me for working. I have a neighbour that goes to a food bank, then straight to the pub where she sells it and then spends the money there. Just because you don’t know any of these people, doesn’t mean that they’re not over sharing to the rest of us.

Charlize43 · 10/06/2025 19:12

baggybags · 10/06/2025 19:07

Kill a lot of birds though, 60million a yr ish.

All my cats have had collars with bells, some even learning to shake them when they want to summon me, and also I've never let them out overnight. I've always tried to be a responsible cat owner (akin to slavery, really), especially after learning how many of the neighbourhood cats are eventually killed in traffic.

XenoBitch · 10/06/2025 19:13

WomanOfSteel · 10/06/2025 19:11

I know plenty of people like this. I went to school with them. I drink in the same pubs as them. They’re not at all embarrassed to have never worked a day in their life and they take the piss out of me for working. I have a neighbour that goes to a food bank, then straight to the pub where she sells it and then spends the money there. Just because you don’t know any of these people, doesn’t mean that they’re not over sharing to the rest of us.

To be fair, I did have an ex like that.
But I am now in the same position of claiming benefits so get lumped in with the people you mention. All the time, and especially on here.

baggybags · 10/06/2025 19:15

@WomanOfSteel I know people
like that who don't have dc.

LeaCFBC · 10/06/2025 19:15

FpTr3952fHp · 10/06/2025 18:03

They are definitely a lifestyle choice, one that I have chosen to avoid. However I have no problem paying towards other people's children and don't understand that logic. Firstly I was a child once myself and secondly I benefit from all the goods and services provided by other people, who are all other people's adult children. If some individuals choose to have a large number of children that's ok too as some people don't have any. The birthrate has been below replacement level for decades. They aren't increasing the population, they're having the children lots of us don't want to have, they're taking the pressure off. Raising children is a vitally important part of a functioning society. It's undervalued as everything done by women is.

The birthrate needs to be a lot more under "replacement level", that entire premise of "replacement level is unnatural for any other species, nature does not allow any other species to breed anywhere near so called "replacement level" when their environment cannot support the current population. "Replacement level" in humans is just a corporate capitalist scam. For our environment ( planet) to be in balance , there actually needs to be fewer humans.

The current research shows that the planet ran out of natural resources enough to sustain the population in 1970. In that short 55 years, the population has more than doubled,from 4 billion to approaching 9billion, 10 billion according to Unicef.

We need to have a global few and stop thinking humans need to continuously replace ourselves. We absolutely don't, it's a capitalist fallacy. Capitalism will fail without ever increasing numbers of humans. The environment will recover, mostly, without ever increasing levels of humans.

Replacement theory, and co existing ,racist version, are what will make life untenable for the humans that continue to be born at anywhere near the current birth rate

A quick look at the global counter clock shows the birthrate far, far outweighs every and all combined deaths per day, globally. It is schocking, once you see it. There is absolutely no problem with the human zo called "replacement"rate. In fact, it is the biggest problem,of many serious problems, affecting us.
Also, 5 million children born in the 5 years up to 2022, didn't make it to their 5th birthday. That is not any sign of a good environment to keep bringing yet more to life.

I am child free by choice because I'm fully aware of the danage Western lifestyle choices are having on the majority of the planet. Everyone thinking of bringing more Western kids into the world need to do aid work in the developing world first.

And the overly simplistic argument,that people need to keep having their own genetic children in the West so Westerners have carers in their twilight years, doesn't bear up to any informed critical thinking either. There are more than enough humans already on this planet that we don't need any morez at all, for at least 50 years.

Think about it. There are already generation after generation alive, right now, 9 to 10 billion of them.

Year old babies now won't need old age care for at least 75 years, on average. Peers can provide care in every care setting,there doesn't have to be an age gap.

This is not meant to trigger parents,it is globally objective,well established, evidenced geosocialpolitical research. Objectivity is difficult to cling on to, against the swamp of subjectivity ,ego and anti scientific social media, sadly.

baggybags · 10/06/2025 19:17

@LeaCFBC the issue is too many older people and not enough younger ones. That's the problem.

WomanOfSteel · 10/06/2025 19:20

XenoBitch · 10/06/2025 19:13

To be fair, I did have an ex like that.
But I am now in the same position of claiming benefits so get lumped in with the people you mention. All the time, and especially on here.

I don’t think benefits are a bad thing, or that the majority of the people are abusing them. I just know a fair amount that know how to work the system and these are the ones that are more likely to be bragging about it and getting people’s backs up.

TempestTost · 10/06/2025 19:22

Society actually needs people to have more children, so telling people that they shouldn't unless they have all their ducks in a row is really quite counter-productive. We should be trying to make it easier for people to have the children they want.

It's also not a clear cut choice issue in the same way that, say, buying cornflakes, is. Children are the outcome of natural biological processes over which we have some control, but not always as much as people like to think.

In any case, children themselves are people, and citizens, not accessories to their parents, and needed to be considered within the framework of them being people.

User37482 · 10/06/2025 19:24

I don’t mind paying towards the education and health of children that aren’t mine at all. I do mind people who have kids willy nilly with no care over their own kids. Those I very much mind.

I also kind of think in an effort to buffer kids with incapable parents the state has basically incentivised people being less and less responsible for their own families. When I lived in the GCC mine had to go to a private school who made it very clear that if kids were not potty trained or couldn’t behave reasonably they wouldn’t be accepted at school. There is no state funded option for expats so you had to make sure your kids were fed, clean, potty trained and not completely feral. I think those are very basic and reasonable expectations.

The reality is as well if that if your parents are incapable then theres a high chance that you will also become an incapable adult (not inevitable ofcourse but theres no-one teaching you how to be a productive member of society). I think it’s basically become unsayable that if someone is completely dependent on welfare they are probably not going to be producing the next generation of workers.

I fully support people in full time work getting additional help.

privatenonamegiven · 10/06/2025 19:28

LeaCFBC · 10/06/2025 19:15

The birthrate needs to be a lot more under "replacement level", that entire premise of "replacement level is unnatural for any other species, nature does not allow any other species to breed anywhere near so called "replacement level" when their environment cannot support the current population. "Replacement level" in humans is just a corporate capitalist scam. For our environment ( planet) to be in balance , there actually needs to be fewer humans.

The current research shows that the planet ran out of natural resources enough to sustain the population in 1970. In that short 55 years, the population has more than doubled,from 4 billion to approaching 9billion, 10 billion according to Unicef.

We need to have a global few and stop thinking humans need to continuously replace ourselves. We absolutely don't, it's a capitalist fallacy. Capitalism will fail without ever increasing numbers of humans. The environment will recover, mostly, without ever increasing levels of humans.

Replacement theory, and co existing ,racist version, are what will make life untenable for the humans that continue to be born at anywhere near the current birth rate

A quick look at the global counter clock shows the birthrate far, far outweighs every and all combined deaths per day, globally. It is schocking, once you see it. There is absolutely no problem with the human zo called "replacement"rate. In fact, it is the biggest problem,of many serious problems, affecting us.
Also, 5 million children born in the 5 years up to 2022, didn't make it to their 5th birthday. That is not any sign of a good environment to keep bringing yet more to life.

I am child free by choice because I'm fully aware of the danage Western lifestyle choices are having on the majority of the planet. Everyone thinking of bringing more Western kids into the world need to do aid work in the developing world first.

And the overly simplistic argument,that people need to keep having their own genetic children in the West so Westerners have carers in their twilight years, doesn't bear up to any informed critical thinking either. There are more than enough humans already on this planet that we don't need any morez at all, for at least 50 years.

Think about it. There are already generation after generation alive, right now, 9 to 10 billion of them.

Year old babies now won't need old age care for at least 75 years, on average. Peers can provide care in every care setting,there doesn't have to be an age gap.

This is not meant to trigger parents,it is globally objective,well established, evidenced geosocialpolitical research. Objectivity is difficult to cling on to, against the swamp of subjectivity ,ego and anti scientific social media, sadly.

Some very valid points here but to single out "Westerner" is far to simplistic. Singling out one group undermines the need for collective, global solutions to environmental challenges. Also, I have big concerns about telling others what to do when it comes to having children or not. Governments would be better off focusing on things that they can actually control rather than whether people are reproducing.

WomanOfSteel · 10/06/2025 19:29

baggybags · 10/06/2025 19:15

@WomanOfSteel I know people
like that who don't have dc.

The food bank woman has 5 children. Some of the others I’m referring to don’t have any children. Most of them do and they are the ones that are bringing their children up (or not I suppose) with a huge lack of respect for people, massive chips on their shoulders and don’t think that working applies to them as it’s a mugs game. I have a friend from a family like this. She moved out to her boyfriend’s mums at 14 and has done really well for herself. Her family have not had anything to do with her other than turning up drunk and shouting abuse at her for being a stuck up bitch (she isn’t, she just has a good work ethic).

PomeloOud · 10/06/2025 19:29

Children are a lifestyle choice. No-one should be having children they can’t afford.

28Fluctuations · 10/06/2025 19:31

In a country with affordable and reliable contraception and widespread information about how to access it, children are a choice. Most women can chooose not to have them. Abortion is free and legal, if a woman is so inclined.

So yes of course it's a choice.

XenoBitch · 10/06/2025 19:31

PomeloOud · 10/06/2025 19:29

Children are a lifestyle choice. No-one should be having children they can’t afford.

Apparently, raising a kid to 18 costs about a quarter of a million.

eqpi4t2hbsnktd · 10/06/2025 19:32

I pay mad amounts of tax. As does DP. And our kids go to a shit school and can't get a drs appointment.

Our money is going on kids whose parents don't / won't / can't pay tax

Beautifulweeds · 10/06/2025 19:37

Well it is a choice, you choose to have a child and how many in modern society and with all the education and opportunities to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

Of course, it's different for many according to culture, upbringing, circumstances of abuse etc.

However, we were once children and fortunate to have education funded by our parents and other working people. Tax all goes into a big pot and whether you have DC or not, a certain amount is used for education, another for NHS and other areas.