Children are a lifestyle choice

[Seriouslywhatnow]

I've actually lost count of the times I've read this on Mumsnet. Posters saying things like "I don't want to have to pay towards little Jonny's education/ food / maternity care. People should t have kids they can't afford"
It's like they can't see that these children are actually PEOPLE. in their own right. And you're not paying for their education as a favour to their "feckless" -it's always "feckless" - parents but FOR THE CHILD. Just like your education /maternity care / whatever was paid for by others as well.
So many people seem to see kids as just an accessory or possession for their parents, and actually like they were never kids themselves so shouldn't have to pay towards other kids. AIBU?

Well, yes and probably not by choice. Now the majority of the free western world has access to contraception.

Sorry. That's what I meant.

@SalmonDreams read it back

Well, yes and probably not by choice.

My parents had access to contraception..

If you live in the UK then they are a lifestyle choice because we have access to contraception and abortions plus most reasonable people understand that the decision comes with lifestyle changes. People usually plan the size of their family based on practical consideration like house size and salary. Having children is a totally selfish decision that we in the UK can make hence lifestyle choice is fair. It’s not a lifestyle choice everywhere else though.

I dont think anyone resents paying for vulnerable people, the nuance is in who is vulnerable and whether they should be means tested.

Should people get winter fuel because of their age or because they can't afford heating? If kids aren't at "free" schools, where are they and will their parents be able to work?

Children are vulnerable though.

But putative parents can choose NOT to have children! Many don't even know why they want them. What is irresponsible is to have children that you can't afford to financially support and then expect "the Government" to pay. Because it isn't "the Government" that pays is it? It's taxpayers, other citizens. Why should I pay because YOU want to have children?

I didn't say they weren't. How did you interpret what I wrote?

Because if the government does not pay, then those children suffer.
We are better than that.

I could not care less if you believe me or not but it is definitely true. Lie to the GP that your anxiety is so bad you can't leave your house so therefore cannot work and, as it cannot be proved or disproved, you get universal credit.

The fact that you then leave your house to go shopping, walk your dog, meet your girlfriend and, the best one, work cash in hand some days doesn't come into it

A single, childfree person on a good income is highly likely to be a net contributor.

How do you know this much medical info about your neighbours? I don't even know the names of the family on one side... the other.... she assumes she knows about me and my finances. I hear her discussing me with other people (or maybe on MN too 😉), yet I have never spoken to her or discussed my medical issues or finances.
Are you my neighbour?

I am of the opinion that the human species should go extinct sooner rather than later.

We have wrecked the planet which we live on not just for us but for nearly every living thing on it.

I absolutely view children as a lifestyle choice.

However that does not mean I don’t feel existing children deserve a decent standard of living.

The issue is - while a lot of people take a lot of care and thought when bringing a new life into the world - many do not and others have to pickup the tab.

I don’t know what the solution is because I don’t want existing children to suffer for their parents choices.

Why should I pay because YOU want to have children?

But where do you draw the line? Why should I pay if you are unhealthy, do a dangerous sport, drink. drive fast, have to rent? haven't saved a decent pension, etc..

A single, childfree person on a good income is highly likely to be a net contributor.

The vast majority of people are not net contributors & won't have paid enough tax for their pension. However this isn't usual historically, the difference now is the changing demographics where we have more old and fewer young. That's the issue.

They are a lifestyle choice which is dying out. It will be interesting to see where that takes us.

In what way. Should the government go round inspecting people's bank accounts then sterilising them against their will because they're not rich enough?

I wouldn't want any part in telling strangers what to do with their reproductive organs.

I completely agree.

Children should be a lifestyle choice, though it’s constantly mystifying, both IRL and on MN, how many people “fall pregnant” when they are not able to support them, or choose to bring children into wholly inappropriate circumstances, or have them at all when they are unable to look after them, in all the ways we use that phrase. Obviously, as a society, we have to support those children as well as we can but I do feel more should be done to encourage people to only reproduce when the time and circumstances are right. The country and the planet are hugely overpopulated and we should discourage more than two children per family for everyone.

It depends how you define accidental pregnancy. I know some people who haven't used any contraception and still considered it an accidental pregnancy.

If people stopped having children here, would you be happy to take young families in from other countries to do the necessary jobs?

I’ve never seen a thread where people resent education & maternity care etc through paying their taxes?

The country and the planet are hugely overpopulated and we should discourage more than two children per family for everyone.

Families are not having 2 dc here! How many times 🤦🏻‍♀️

I used to resent people with kids and those on benefits - until I had (1) DC with a disability, became a single Mum/Carer.

I can remember having a rant at our local councillor who was going door to door during an election campaign, must have been in the 80's. She was so proud of the fact that new houses were being built in the village and that a percentage would be council/social housing. My late teen self told her that I could never afford to buy one, nor would I get a council house as they'll all go to single Mum's who don't even live in the village. How righteous I was, lol.

Today's kids are going to grow up and give a valuable input into society, industry, commerce, medicine, farming and so on. We need kids. They'll be paying taxes for the next lot of pensioners and so forth. So, it's not just a lifestyle choice, it's essential to our very existence on earth.

I do agree on the benefit cap of 2 children though. You can't keep churning them out and expecting others to support you entirely. There's always going to be outliers to this but I guess there has to be some sort of system.