WIBU to complain about this teacher?

[ConfusedSloth]

I know what you're thinking - no, I don't hate teachers. DH is a teacher and I used to be a teacher. But, we have a lot of ongoing issues with DS's teacher and I don't know what to do. We are/were secondary though so it's a whole different ball game. We've already raised an issue once but we tried very hard to make it not a personal issue about her - but it feels like one. I'm sorry that this will be long - I have tried to be concise but don't want to be accused of drip-feeding if I clarify things later on.

Usual story - no behavioural issues raised about DS by anyone at any time, ever. Only ever heard positive things - we are very lucky. But our concerns are growing. He's 5 and in Y1 - no issues with his teacher last year or in preschool.

Issues include:

We are absolutely certain that DS has dyspraxia. DH does. DS has almost every symptom - handwriting is illegible no matter how much he tries, and he complains his hands hurt, cannot throw or catch a ball properly, cannot walk in a straight line, cannot do steps with one foot per step, cannot skip, cannot do a two-footed jump, struggles with cutlery. DD (2) can do these things. He falls over daily, hits his head daily, struggles to open/close things, struggles to even do velcro shoes. We mentioned this to his teacher as we had parents' evening around the same time as we spoke to the GP. She agreed with everything we were saying (and we can see on the app where they upload videos that this happens at school). The GP referred to the school nurse who spoke to the teacher. The school nurse has come back to say that the teacher (who completely and totally agreed with us at parents' evening and said she sees all of these same things) had said she has no concerns at all and that she's not witnessed a single one of these symptoms.

We spoke to the school (our one complaint) because DS (who has always and adored school/nursery) absolutely hates school now. Won't get out of bed, cries the night before, cries in the car before going in. He says his teacher hates him. He says she thinks he's stupid. Some of what he says is very specific "Mrs X said [child] is smart than I am". We were very careful raising it with the school and made it more of a general "he's struggling with enjoyment" issue and didn't say anything that was accusatory or personal. We raised that he'd told us he's not good at anything (he actually said "Mrs X said I'm not good at anything") so they said they would work on that. The next day - he got four stickers (his first stickers of the year, this was just before Easter). He got one for standing in the line, another for sitting on the carpet, one for being quiet and one for answering a question (all things he's always done, and things every child would do). Then they announced he was being "celebrated" (one child in each class is chosen each week to be celebrated). Whilst this took on board what we said, and I know I sound like they can't win, it felt a bit like a "fuck you" (like if you ask a child to stop talking in class so they go on silent protest and won't even answer their name in the register). We attended his celebration assembly and his teacher didn't seem to have anything good to even say - my mum came (and I hadn't told her anything about the issues and she raised with me that she thought it was odd compared to the other children being celebrated). She also hadn't written his out for him to hold (which all the other children had). She said that the reason he was being "celebrated" was for a piece of work he'd done well on but it turns out he did that piece of work the same afternoon as the assembly (immediately before the assembly) but we were told he was being celebrated two weeks earlier. I obviously bigged up my son but it was obvious to me that she was praising him begrudgingly.

Back at Christmas, when they had their nativity, DS wanted a speaking part. All the children who wanted a speaking part got a speaking part (that was the rule) but his was the smallest one - 6 words. He was also the only child not on the stage for any of the songs and, at the end, he was the only child who didn't go on the stage to take a bow (he was ushered out with the children who bowed when his group went up to bow). He's one of the shortest children in the class and the rows were on height - except he was right at the back and completely hidden from view except for his 40 seconds on stage. I don't think this was accidental.

At the end of reception, he was in the top reading group (Big Cat Little Wandle 5.2, if that means anything to anyone). In September, he was moved all the way to the bottom reading group. We weren't told that he'd been moved and it only came out in February when we raised that he hadn't gone up a single book band since the summer. The teacher moved him up in February (at parents' evening) when we raised that he hadn't moved up but had no explanation for why he'd not progressed at all and no explanation for why he was now in the bottom group (in fact, she blamed his dyspraxia - which is why we're so confused as to why she's told the school nurse she's not seeing any symptoms). She said that his reading is behind but they won't do any intervention because "water finds its own level" and some children are simply low attainment. Our confusion is that he's been ahead and his report in July said he was ahead but, by September, she assessed that he was behind - but not just "behind", "behind and not worth trying to get back up to speed". We've now had two private assessments and both have said he's ahead on his reading and can't understand why we're concerned.

I understand that it's almost the end of the year and he'll get a new teacher soon but I'm concerned for a lot of reasons. Firstly, she'll be the one doing his phonics check and I simply don't trust her. I have two private assessments that say his reading is ahead and she's saying he can't read at all - I simply don't trust that she'll do the test fairly. Secondly, she'll be doing his handover for his next teacher and if she tells the new teacher that he's dumb as a brick then that's the perception he'll have. Thirdly, it's bordering on bullying - I've had a parent tell me she was unkind about him on a school trip (other parent was a parent helper on the trip and overheard her compare my child to one of the animals in the zoo to other children when my child wasn't there) and if she couldn't feign that she likes him for a celebration assembly, I do wonder what she's like when she thinks no one is looking. I'm also concerned because DS has a facial disfigurement (and had surgery relating to it in the summer) and I wonder if this has played a role in her treatment of him or is maybe why she's decided he's stupid.

Would you complain in this circumstance, or just wait it out? I don't want to be "one of those" but I feel like every few days there's a new incident or issue (and I've heard it from adults too so it's not just that my son is feeling a certain way).

I bet because his vocab is so good and his comprehension is good the teacher thinks he’s not trying because of the handwriting. And then equates bad handwriting with level.

im dyspraxic and dyslexic. Had a couple teachers repeatedly tell me I’m not trying and I’m lazy. One absolutely did hate me, gave me detention a couple times for copying homework because I got full marks and she refused to believe I was capable. But that was maths not handwriting. That same teacher made me feel she hated me, never enough to be sure but a constant negative vibe from her.

I fully believe you are correct this teacher do like your son. Probably not so bad as your son says and she’s only said half the stuff he’s saying she says because he’s speaking the vibe he gets not the words. If you can get the witness from the zoo to write you a statement I’d take that to the head. If they won’t then just leave it and prey you get a better teacher next year. Then if next year start badly too bring it to the new teacher as new issues this year.

It may actually be he’s struggling with the noise or the environment and you can tackle the issues with the new teacher. That would also explain why the teacher agreed he’s got struggles to you then when asked to put it on paper baulked because SEN plans and EHCP applications is a lot of work lots of teachers would rather kick the can down the road for the next teacher to handle. I’ve seen this happening multiple times in early years and I’ve got a friend who works in a school who had a good old rant about this problem in her school before. So I know it happens even though no teachers will admit to it.

My own dd who is undiagnosed but I think adhd/autistic some mix was very similar- advanced then suddenly behind. Evidenced by her SATs. I was paying for a private tutor and had assessments done myself because I was concerned. Same thing happened as you found, I was told she was advanced and yet at school she no longer was. I finally worked out it was the environment being too loud and too distracting for her at school to concentrate so she wasn’t doing her best work. Then I had a frank conversation with the teacher about it all and she told me the behaviour of other students was appalling and takes all the teacher time, yes nationally my dd scored below average but she was high score for the school so would get no help there. So now I home educate and I can see it myself, at home or with a tutor she’s amazing and works well, background noise and she regresses and can’t focus/is INCREDIBLY frustrating to try to teach.

My DS had a teacher who didn't like him and treated him unfairly all year during one primary school year.
It was all stuff that if I'd brought it up sounded petty. I did email her once and she said to DS the next day, Oh have you been complaining to your mum about me?
IME school are unlikely to admit formally that anything has been done incorrectly. They will pass off the zoo incident as a joke/misunderstanding. They just close ranks no matter what's been done. Especially don't mention things like nativity.

Towards the end of the year I asked for a meeting with deputy head. I had two specific asks:
1 that he would be put with a better teacher in Sept
2 that the teacher in question would have some retraining

If you have clear requests and you're not threatening all sorts, they're more likely to acknowledge some wrongdoing at least which might make you feel better.

They agreed to both of those requests and his next teacher was brilliant and built him right up again. The unfair one is no longer at the school.

Ask for a kick off meeting with the new teacher to make sure things go right this year.

As hurtful and difficult all this has been, you are limited in what you can make happen now. You can't change how your son has been made to feel. All you can do is say, Phew that's the end of Reception with Ms X who wasn't very kind was she? She was silly too because she didn't know what a good reader you are! Etc. Write it off and encourage a fresh start.

Honestly all this one day will not matter at all to either of you.

Also, it's actually really unlikely that this is personal. She's probably just a bad teacher with no sense of her bias. She probably has a poor sense of all the other kids abilities as well

Did you challenge this with the teacher and the nurse? The first thing I would have said to the nurse was that it completely contradicted what she says previously and maybe you should all have a meeting to discuss. I think you've been too passive all year. I would forget about nativity etc and focus on things like an actual parent told you she said awful things about your child, that's unprofessional and bullying behaviour. It's never too late to call out unprofessional behaviour and I'm the last person who would complain but based on things like ger inability to tell you exactly why he's not progressing it even putting a plan in place would be enough for me to approach the school for a conversation

So you think his teacher is borderline bullying him based on this report? You sound very overinvested and totally going out of your way to look for things to be upset about. The report is glowing and doesn’t reflect any of what you have said here. And you are going on the word of a five year old. That is absolutely crazy.

You may have been a teacher but you can’t separate that from your child. You are being a parent not a child in this circumstance. Your child is FIVE. FIVE. private assessments, tutors, etc. Not normal.

Counting lines and comparing to their children isn’t normal. At all. Lots of kids won’t have gotten speaking parts or the nativity would have been two hours long. They are trying to organise 30 kids and you point out he was ushered off the stage without a song.

Are you okay? Seriously.

Can you contact the school nurse or SENCo directly to ask for support with the dyspraxia?

I would absolutely go to the head and share the message you got about the trip too. That's appalling.

The word of a 5 yo AND an adult who witnessed the teacher being cruel about OP’s DS in front of other children.

Yeah, some teachers just don't like certain kids. (Job share partner filled me in on what happened to our class the following year)

The occasional teacher can say awful things about kids/parents/other staff.

No - as I said, that was his last report, from his previous teacher. PP said that there may not have been behavioural concerns raised before because in nursery and reception, behavioural problems are easier to cope with. I shared this report (from a different teacher) to show that there were no behavioural problems at all. This is in addition to his current teacher not raising any behavioural concerns about DS at either parents' evening (but, to be frank, not seeming to have anything to say about him at all).

I'm going on the word of a five year old, a school nurse, another parent and things that I have personally witnessed. Even if you completely exclude anything DS said, I still have more than enough to be concerned.

It's perfectly normal to seek a private tutor if you're told your child is behind where they should academically and that the school will not put in any additional support. In fact, several nasty comments on here have suggested I do so because I clearly haven't done enough to support him.

As I've said elsewhere, every child who wanted a speaking part gets a speaking part so your "lots won't have got a speaking part" is nonsense. Nativities are planned and rehearsed. It isn't accidental that he was not on stage for a song, it's not accidental he didn't go on to bow, it's not accidental he had the shortest line and it's not accidental that he wasn't visible for the entire play.

I'm fine, thanks - I'm not the one incapable of reading what actually happened before being outraged.

Hey OP

You’ve taken some stick on this thread (albeit from mostly the same person) but what stands out to me here is the comment made at the zoo, which was so totally unprofessional (and nasty) that it warrants a complaint all on its own, and the attitude of the teacher over your son’s reading levels. Any child who has made that little progress over the year should be on the school’s radar. The teacher can’t come out with rubbish like ‘water finds its own level’ and ‘behind but not worth trying to catch up’. She should be made to explain to the HT at pupil progress meetings why this has happened.

I’m a primary teacher myself and am very upset for you and your little boy. Hopefully his next teacher will not be anything like his current teacher, and with any luck, the school won’t alter the classes in years to come, because he needs never to be taught by her again.

PP on the thread who think teachers never take against children - well yes sometimes they do, even if it’s rare. I’ve seen racist teachers, snobby teachers, and teachers who simply ignore certain children with disabilities. Facial differences still bother ignorant and superstitious people - you only have to ask someone who has such a difference if they’ve ever been insulted on the street - unfortunately this teacher might be one of those.

You need to brush up your reading comprehension.

I’m a teacher and I’m horrified at the zoo comments. You need to get an appointment to see the head and the teacher at the same time. I wouldn’t pre warn them about the zoo message so you can see the reaction from both of them when you bring it up. Also refer to the comments from his reception teacher as a comparison to where his current teachers says he is academically.

Please ignore the goody poster OP. Its not a valuable use of your time engaging with them.

It's not common but definitely does happen that a teacher just takes against a student. It happened to my sibling in similar circumstances (SEN, early years).

Id ask for a meeting with his new teacher and focus on looking for ways to support him in Y2, ask for what to work on over summer since private assessments can't find the issues seen at school and you haven't been given examples, flag that you are progressing his dyspraxia assessment and what you've found that works for him. If it comes up, Id say you know he hasn't gelled with his teacher given the zoo comment, but you're keen to use Y2 to get him back on track and on the trajectory he joined the school on.

OP, just the ‘water finds its level’ (!!!) comment is upsetting enough!
I think you sound very measured and have clearly thought this all through carefully.

I 100% agree! ⬆️

I work in a school & I'm normally of the opinion that posters are over-reacting & the teachers are generally fine, but reading this, it genuinely does sound as though this teacher is at best, very unprofessional & at worse, has it in for your little boy. I got more & more angry & sad for your son as I read your post. Please don't let this go - complain in writing, with evidence & ask for a meeting with the Head. Raise to the Governors if necessary.

I’m SLT in a school and deal with parent issues from time to time. My best advice would be to drop the nativity concerns as it’s going to muddy the water and detract from your point.

Be clear and to the point: you’re concerned the OT paperwork the teacher filled out doesn’t reflect your own observations or your conversations with the teacher. You would like to seek the opinion of a SENCo or a phase leader or someone from the school’s SLT, as you would like to work with the school to get the best support possible. You risk this assessment becoming tied up in a complaint - I’m not saying it’s right, but the quickest way to helping your child will be to focus on the dyspraxia descriptors and getting them accurately filled in.

Enough already, stop trolling the OP

And that makes it better ??? Erm no it doesn't

This is a tough one. If it were earlier in the year, I would definitely request a meeting with the teacher and the headteacher (or possibly two separate meetings). With just weeks remaining in the term, I'm not sure it would be worth it. Would anything actually be accomplished? This teacher will most likely not change her opinion of your child and a complaint won't make her like him any more than she currently does. If you are most concerned about the handover, I really wouldn't worry. Your son's next teachers should assess his abilities independently and form their own opinions.

If you do go ahead with a meeting or complaint, I wouldn't mention everything in your OP. For example, I wouldn't say a word concerning the minutiae about the nativity play. While all those details are important to you, they are really insignificant and by mentioning them it could make you seem less credible and cause the headteacher to discount anything else you say.

The main issues seem to be both academic and social/personal: the teacher's inaccurate assessment of your child's reading ability and her unkindness to him in general (evidently saying that he isn't as clever as another child, comparing him to an animal at the zoo, etc.). All of these things are worrying. I know that people on MN defend teachers reflexively, but the reality is that some teachers don't treat all children well. Of course, teachers are human and will naturally like some pupils more than others. But they shouldn't let that get in the way of treating all of them equally and discovering their individual strengths and weaknesses. I teach adults (university) and I have certainly had students who were challenging or with whom I experienced a personality clash, but I really try never to let my views interfere with the way I interact with them.

As a parent and teacher, I never wanted to be ‘one of those parents’ and as such didn’t truly advocate for my children at times, which I bitterly regret.

I understand that the Christmas play upset you and your son, but I would put that on the back burner for now.

If you think about the teaching standards and how this teacher potentially behaves with other children in her care, I would discuss with the head: how your dyspraxia concerns have been handled; the way she spoke about your child to other children; not monitoring his reading closely or having a clear rationale for his sudden and unchecked regression.

OP, in your shoes I'd be torn between (a) wanting my DC to have the education they need, and (b) wanting to dismember this teacher for the zoo comment, and the water comment, and for making my child miserable.

As an adult, I probably need to say do (a)... so arrange a meeting to raise dyspraxia issues with head & teacher (& school nurse?), particularly given GP advice That's the minimum level of clarification you need to get sorted. Have very recent videos of your son attempting age-appropriate things - jumping, skipping, walking along a line, whatever - to refer to.

Not outraged at all. Perfectly chill. You dripped the info in some parts and frankly it’s another case of I don’t like any other opinion other than my own.

Stand by what I said. My opinion and I’m entitled to it. I get that you don’t agree.

No I really don’t. My reading comprehension is just fine. I have many degrees, diplomas etc that would support that but is suspect you don’t really care (which is fine). I get you don’t agree with me and that’s perfectly fine but argue the point not the person.

Let’s say what your DS is telling you is 100% accurate and what the other mother heard was spot on accurate too… then this teacher doesn’t just dislike your son, she is utterly psychotic (which is unlikely)