WIBU to complain about this teacher?

[ConfusedSloth]

I know what you're thinking - no, I don't hate teachers. DH is a teacher and I used to be a teacher. But, we have a lot of ongoing issues with DS's teacher and I don't know what to do. We are/were secondary though so it's a whole different ball game. We've already raised an issue once but we tried very hard to make it not a personal issue about her - but it feels like one. I'm sorry that this will be long - I have tried to be concise but don't want to be accused of drip-feeding if I clarify things later on.

Usual story - no behavioural issues raised about DS by anyone at any time, ever. Only ever heard positive things - we are very lucky. But our concerns are growing. He's 5 and in Y1 - no issues with his teacher last year or in preschool.

Issues include:

We are absolutely certain that DS has dyspraxia. DH does. DS has almost every symptom - handwriting is illegible no matter how much he tries, and he complains his hands hurt, cannot throw or catch a ball properly, cannot walk in a straight line, cannot do steps with one foot per step, cannot skip, cannot do a two-footed jump, struggles with cutlery. DD (2) can do these things. He falls over daily, hits his head daily, struggles to open/close things, struggles to even do velcro shoes. We mentioned this to his teacher as we had parents' evening around the same time as we spoke to the GP. She agreed with everything we were saying (and we can see on the app where they upload videos that this happens at school). The GP referred to the school nurse who spoke to the teacher. The school nurse has come back to say that the teacher (who completely and totally agreed with us at parents' evening and said she sees all of these same things) had said she has no concerns at all and that she's not witnessed a single one of these symptoms.

We spoke to the school (our one complaint) because DS (who has always and adored school/nursery) absolutely hates school now. Won't get out of bed, cries the night before, cries in the car before going in. He says his teacher hates him. He says she thinks he's stupid. Some of what he says is very specific "Mrs X said [child] is smart than I am". We were very careful raising it with the school and made it more of a general "he's struggling with enjoyment" issue and didn't say anything that was accusatory or personal. We raised that he'd told us he's not good at anything (he actually said "Mrs X said I'm not good at anything") so they said they would work on that. The next day - he got four stickers (his first stickers of the year, this was just before Easter). He got one for standing in the line, another for sitting on the carpet, one for being quiet and one for answering a question (all things he's always done, and things every child would do). Then they announced he was being "celebrated" (one child in each class is chosen each week to be celebrated). Whilst this took on board what we said, and I know I sound like they can't win, it felt a bit like a "fuck you" (like if you ask a child to stop talking in class so they go on silent protest and won't even answer their name in the register). We attended his celebration assembly and his teacher didn't seem to have anything good to even say - my mum came (and I hadn't told her anything about the issues and she raised with me that she thought it was odd compared to the other children being celebrated). She also hadn't written his out for him to hold (which all the other children had). She said that the reason he was being "celebrated" was for a piece of work he'd done well on but it turns out he did that piece of work the same afternoon as the assembly (immediately before the assembly) but we were told he was being celebrated two weeks earlier. I obviously bigged up my son but it was obvious to me that she was praising him begrudgingly.

Back at Christmas, when they had their nativity, DS wanted a speaking part. All the children who wanted a speaking part got a speaking part (that was the rule) but his was the smallest one - 6 words. He was also the only child not on the stage for any of the songs and, at the end, he was the only child who didn't go on the stage to take a bow (he was ushered out with the children who bowed when his group went up to bow). He's one of the shortest children in the class and the rows were on height - except he was right at the back and completely hidden from view except for his 40 seconds on stage. I don't think this was accidental.

At the end of reception, he was in the top reading group (Big Cat Little Wandle 5.2, if that means anything to anyone). In September, he was moved all the way to the bottom reading group. We weren't told that he'd been moved and it only came out in February when we raised that he hadn't gone up a single book band since the summer. The teacher moved him up in February (at parents' evening) when we raised that he hadn't moved up but had no explanation for why he'd not progressed at all and no explanation for why he was now in the bottom group (in fact, she blamed his dyspraxia - which is why we're so confused as to why she's told the school nurse she's not seeing any symptoms). She said that his reading is behind but they won't do any intervention because "water finds its own level" and some children are simply low attainment. Our confusion is that he's been ahead and his report in July said he was ahead but, by September, she assessed that he was behind - but not just "behind", "behind and not worth trying to get back up to speed". We've now had two private assessments and both have said he's ahead on his reading and can't understand why we're concerned.

I understand that it's almost the end of the year and he'll get a new teacher soon but I'm concerned for a lot of reasons. Firstly, she'll be the one doing his phonics check and I simply don't trust her. I have two private assessments that say his reading is ahead and she's saying he can't read at all - I simply don't trust that she'll do the test fairly. Secondly, she'll be doing his handover for his next teacher and if she tells the new teacher that he's dumb as a brick then that's the perception he'll have. Thirdly, it's bordering on bullying - I've had a parent tell me she was unkind about him on a school trip (other parent was a parent helper on the trip and overheard her compare my child to one of the animals in the zoo to other children when my child wasn't there) and if she couldn't feign that she likes him for a celebration assembly, I do wonder what she's like when she thinks no one is looking. I'm also concerned because DS has a facial disfigurement (and had surgery relating to it in the summer) and I wonder if this has played a role in her treatment of him or is maybe why she's decided he's stupid.

Would you complain in this circumstance, or just wait it out? I don't want to be "one of those" but I feel like every few days there's a new incident or issue (and I've heard it from adults too so it's not just that my son is feeling a certain way).

Woah - seriously ignore this!

I have not read follow up posts but I am guessing the school play thing was said as one part of a massive jigsaw of concerns.

The sort of 'Railway Children on steroids' red flag for me is that she compared your child to a zoo animal.

Of course complain - transcribe this post, rejigged as a catalogue of your concerns, and give it straight to the head.

I am a teacher and while I would normally say raise it first with the teacher, I think her actions so far in response to your concerns, and the seriousness of some of the things she's done, mean that it would be reasonable to bypass her.

This is what I would complain about. Just speak to the head now. You will get a lot of people saying oh poor teacher, parents are a pain but another parent has heard this and told you and it's wrong. Just get on and report it.

Speaking as an ex-primary school teacher who has been in a similar position to you, it is incredibly painful to have an issue with your child's teacher because you know it all from the other side and how difficult some parents can be. And you also know how teachers should conduct themselves with their pupils. Raising concerns as a parent becomes doubly hard, especially if the school know that you're a teacher.

You definitely need to take the Dyspraxia issue further. But try to take the personal out of it. You are pretty early on in your child's school career and who knows what other issues are going to emerge over time that you may feel you need to take up with School. It's coming towards the end of the school year. Let go & let God with the teacher. If there are genuine problems with this teacher then they will emerge with other parents over the course of time.

It's in the teacher's interests for a child to pass the phonics check so don't worry about this. If he does happen to fail then it will be clearer at the beginning of Year 2 as to whether ornot there is genuinely an issue.

Sound advice

Iv seen this wjth adhd kids seeking diagnosis. Nhs (GP) say the school should be doing the diagnosis and the school (ea) say it's a medical issues that should be referred by the GP

I would go back to GP and firmly ask for a referral on nhs

I think it does definitely sound like she doesn’t like your child OP. Not all teachers are nice- I say this as a primary teacher myself.

however, I don’t think going to the school at this stage will be helpful. She will absolutely lie to defend herself and will be believed over you. The little bits of evidence you have will be dismissed as petty or she will say they didn’t happen. You will end up looking like a neurotic parent.

you are best now just continuing to get through this Half term and seeing how he goes in the next class in September. Even if this teacher speaks negatively in handover, it doesn’t mean the next teacher won’t like your Ds, she or he will probably be pleasantly surprised if they’ve heard negative remarks about him and then realise he’s lovely. You could always speak to the new teacher and say that Mrs X last year said DS was very behind in reading so you’ve worked hard over the summer to improve his reading skills and are wondering if she/he thinks there is anything else you can do at home just to make it known that he has had reading input and shouldn’t be massively behind.

and keep on boosting your boy like you are doing

I have a dyspraxic DD who appeared to be a good reader at school. It wasn't until we finally had her assessed by an expert at 15 that we discovered that there were certain issues with comprehension. FOr her they were:

If she has to read silently she has no idea what she read - she needs to read it out loud and hear the words.

If you ask her to do a practical task in class - eg home ec or a science practical - all her focus is on doing it and she can't tell you what she did. If she watches someone else do it then she can relate what happened in quite a lot of detail.

Slow to write neatly but she is now a musician with good fine motor skills so her handwriting is neat. However she tends to work from the shoulder rather than the lower arm/wrist so needs greater feedback from the writing tools - so prefers a fountain pen as it scratches a little, and then a pencil rather than a biro or roller ball.

She has a few dyslexic traits as part of the dyspraxia - eg finds things easier through a coloured overlay.

FInally - lazy eye is apparently more common in dyspraxic children - might be worth getting his eye sight checked as if this is an issue it can be dealt with quickly at his age.

Hang on in there - mine was labelled stupid at school and yet she was the one with a full scholarship and therefore no uni fees to pay when it came to Higher Ed!

When I was in P5 in Scotland I was 9 and turned 10 in the April, for whatever reason this teacher took a disliking to me and I went from the top table in everything to the bottom table. He said i couldn't spell, my handwriting was that of a toddler. I honestly disliked school much I ran away twice. I had to go in to hospital so my mum asked for the work that she would get me to go whilst I was off. He said no point as I wouldn't understand it. My mum by this point was really confused as to how her daughter who. the previous 4 yrs had been said to be a very intelligent child was now according to this teacher useless. So went back to school and was given work to catch up with. I did 2 weeks work in one day, no mistake but he said my handwritten was terrible and he couldn't read it but he knew it was all correct. My mum went up and caused a scene and said that his attitude was disgusting so he better get it sorted. His wife worked with my dad and from that day on she did not speak to my dad. So for 20 yrs of working basically ignore my dad. He told my mum I was a little know it all who needed bring down a peg of 2. When I went into P6 this teacher had been told I was a terrible child with a terrible attitude and I would never achieve anything. He asked to speak to my parents as he has spoken to the teacher and has said if there had been an issue as he thought the teacher had me confused with someone else or had their been a clash of personalities. To this day no one has any idea why he didn't get on with me. I was a people pleaser so wouldn't have been cheeky or unpleasant to him. No idea why he didn't like me

this is my thought - I appreciate why you've included all the other things but honestly, even if they are true, they sound so petty and unproveable that if you did make a complaint the head would just write you off as one of 'those' parents.
but then you almost brush over this and it sounds like both the worst thing and the one that is most easily evidenced (an independent witness).

Personally if the phonics assessment is the thing you are most worried about I would go to the head specifically about that and only that, in order to make a reasonable request, saying we really disagree with Ms X about his reading level, it was really concerning to us that he went from top of the class to bottom, we've had a private tutor who says his reading is standard, we've been working with him over the year etc. Would it be possible for him to be assessed by someone else so we get an objective opinion?

Leave the rest, tell DS September is a new year and new teacher, wait a few months so she gets to know him then ask about the dyspraxia, and get a new assessment.

If you really want to make a formal complaint I would focus on at most 2 or 3 things. Say 'we have a number of minor concerns as well' if it makes you feel better but stick with the ones with actual evidence from people who aren't your DS's family members (including your mum!)
a - an independent witness heard her making fun of him
b - previous teachers and a private tutor all assessed his reading level as average to above average, she is the only one who keeps insisting he is below average but at the same time refusing to put into place anything to help him
c - she specifically said she agreed with the dyspraxia signs and even used it to explain why his reading was poor (particularly if she put this in writing) so you don't understand why she then said she couldn't see any

If this teacher has underestimated your dc the new one will love him because he'll show massive improvement with her.

I think you’ve got a few issues to raise, certainly.

I’d forget the nativity stuff. Yes, those things were unfortunate, but easy enough to explain as oversights or accidents. Going on about the nativity reduces the potency of the real issues. Ditto the stickers/celebration.

You have every right to mention her horrible comparison at the zoo, but this will likely be explained away. Even so, put it to the Head Teachers like this usually have a track record, so even if the Head makes excuses to you, there could be an internal action for the teacher.

Absolutely question the reading too. Take the work and assessments in from the tutor to compare with his school work. It could be that, aside from dyspraxia, he’s finding it hard to concentrate in class or, because she’s been so awful to him, he’s lost confidence and isn’t performing as highly as he could. Either way, with the direct comparison, the truth will come out.

This parent needs to raise this with the school. It's completely inappropriate for the teacher to draw attention like that to your DC face, especially when he's got a known issue/had surgery.

I had this with my daughter. Yes it is possible for a teacher to dislike a 5 year old . And subtly show it by disfavouring them , Nativity thing as described and dismissing anything a parent raises. My daughter was criticised by the teacher on front of whole class ( this was told by a child to his parent who told me ) for crying . Turned put that she had a temperature of 104 . I was so upset and did raise it . Teacher tried to tell me that she often cried - false - . I do believe that she continued to discriminate against my child until she left .
It does happen OP and My God it hurts your heart .

Well thats a bit of a drip feed.

This you complain about and name the parent who told you

Hi, OP -

Your most recent update about the zoo incident is very serious. Do you still have the text?

In general I think this is a difficult and ambiguous situation, but certain things stand out. Although I understand your concerns around the Nativity play - and would have probably done the same, had it been my DC - I think they dilute the strength of your argument. I would concentrate on more objective problems.

That revolting incident at the zoo, especially if the other mum allows you to show the Head her text. (Otherwise perhaps you can anonymise it, but this does no good if she was the only mum on the trip) I think that incident alone will get people on your side -ie DS’ side. The disparity between the teacher’s assessment of DS’ reading level and everyone else’s assessment - and you need to be clear that this includes reading comprehension. The contradictions around dyspraxia. The effect of the year on DS’ personality. Etc.

A short presentation stating a theme and giving key examples is much more powerful than a laundry list of every small complaint.

You're getting an unnecessary amount of flak here, which I don't think is fair. In my experience (3 kids) there's always one teacher that your child doesn't click with. The one my eldest encountered in p2 was a particularly memorable example.

I would wait it out and see how he gets on with his new teacher.

I'm finding this thread quite surreal.
Assuming we all want the best for this child, it's all been about measuring, assessing, valuing, grading, comparing what they can allegedly do.
And disgruntlement about how they have been graded and called and measured and assessed. And because of this, complaints and disagreements and interpretations of teachers being motivated by dislike. It's surreal.
When I was parenting I just concerned myself with doing all I could at home to support my child's learning and packing them off to school to let the school do the same.
I find it surreal that any parent puts a pause to this process to complain when they could be ignoring assessments and outcomes and just focus on doing as much as they can to contribute to their child's learning.
Surreal.

Referral forms to OT are often 3-4 pages long and takes ages to complete - they get so many referrals that they ask for a lot of detail to be able to establish which are and are not valid. They don't get prioritised based on who has referred, but by concerns raised, but being so long, the GP probably hasn't got time to complete so wants school nurse to do it.
Some areas take parent referrals- ours does, with a different but equally lengthy form.

Having thought about it, it seems to me that the teacher hid your son behind tall children at the nativity because of his facial difference. She clearly has an issue with it and is unable to act professionally, given the comments at the zoo. It's horrible.

Op?

You have explicit evidence. Have you shown the school?

have you been back to the GP following the nurse’s action?

Teachers are like anyone else, there are a small number who are just nasty people. Our son had an awful experience in his first term of reception, I was constantly brushed off, his teacher refusing to use his radio was explained away, as was not letting him do PE or take part in mini sports day. It was only resolved when his class teacher replied to an email I had sent, she accidentally replied to me and the class TA rather than just the TA. In the email she said awful things about him, mocked his disability and used extremely offensive language regarding a disability he doesn’t actually have, an offensive word used to describe someone who has cerebral palsy. The other teacher (job share) was brilliant, she genuinely couldn’t have been better.

what part of the teacher specifically mocking a 5 year old child's disability to other children on a school trip is "all about measuring, assessing, valuing, grading what they can do"?

Sorry - doing bedtime.

Yes, we've gone back to the GP.

No, not raised with the school about the trip. That was only a couple of weeks ago.

MN is a funny place. For each thing, I was considering how good the evidence was and how much it impacted DS. So, the trip comment was low on the impact scale because he doesn't know about it and I thought you'd all say "it's just a rumour from a busybody, it's not evidence" (whereas, with the nativity, he noticed that he was sidelined (he'd asked to be a narrator and was told no because he was one the year before and they can only do it once - fine, fair enough, but then two other narrators this year were also narrators last year. He noticed that and was upset) and I can prove he was at the back, didn't bow, etc).

I don't feel like the one-off incidents are my big issue and I understand it sounds petty. I didn't list everything in the OP because it was already very long but it's how they all add-up to a bigger picture. But, I'm concerned about being "that parent" or laughed at or considered neurotic. If I go in without very solid evidence I think they'll blow me off but if I go in with very solid evidence then they'll think I'd looking for a problem - I'm not sure how to be taken seriously.

And to the PP that's confused about why there's a thread full of people with opinions on this, it's because most parents care about supporting their child and then being happy. It's not hard.

You have gone back to the Gp
and? A new referral?

and That was only a couple of weeks ago.

so you’ve been sitting on this definitive evidence for a couple of weeks and done squat all?

It sounds like she's got it in for him. Sadly some people go into teaching so they specifically can exercise power and control over small children, have an outlet for their controlling character and mistreat and mess with children's learning. It does attract some oddballs. There are also plenty of teachers without malice who are just not good or competent. And for many it's the only job they could get and last resort but they don't like kids or only like the compliant needy teacher pleasing affectionate ones (not recognising that such needless and affection comes from abuse and neglect at home and not because they are an amazing teacher).
Clearly there is a pattern of unacceptable behavior towards your child and a lack of professionalism.
Some p posters who are mocking you clearly aren't posting in good faith .
There is usually some on each thread.