To think these people are toxic?

[WartFace]

Newbie/lurker here hoping for clarity:
I’ve always felt uncomfortable around my bil. For a long time I blamed myself. My ds and I have a shared interest in a small property. We decided to sell and bil offered to do the marketing. He was rather casual about the whole thing and I found out that he’d failed to tell me something crucial. I lost my temper and said some fairly spiteful things to my ds. I know I should have kept calm and dealt with him directly but I didn’t.
She was incredibly angry with me and the whole thing escalated, leaving me utterly stunned. She took the opportunity to tell me everything I’ve ever done wrong, largely acts of omission plus a few made up offences. I tried and tried to defend myself but she wouldn’t hear me. I went nc for a while and felt better but we agreed to get back in tentative touch. Now she writes me letters every so often, as if nothing was ever said, very newsy and friendly but superficial. I’m very confused. What do people think? I’d be grateful for any perspective you have, thank you all!

Hmmmm. Hard to tell from the scant details, but I’m inclined to think that you were in the wrong here, and could potentially be the ‘toxicity’ you’re looking for.

This is why you don’t hire family, or use their professional services — too much potential for upset at errors, poor work etc. And, as you did, losing your temper about them to someone who then takes their side.

I’m not sure what you’re confused by. You admit to losing your temper being spiteful about her DH, she got angry in turn, brought up some times when you were at fault from your shared past, you were NC for a while, then decided to get back in ‘tentative touch’. She now contacts you periodically with news in a friendly but superficial way — what is it that you were expecting? A rehash of the original argument? What do you want?

And no, I don’t think either of them is ‘toxic’, though the term is essentially meaningless pop psychology. It’s a predictable family fallout that could have been avoided by paying someone to market the property professionally.

I should have said that I apologized the following day for what I’d said. She then told me what I’d meant by what I’d said: basically, that I’d accused him of dishonesty. I certainly hadn’t - hadn’t even thought of that.

Sorry I was unclear. I didn’t hire him - he offered to deal with the estate agent. He failed to tell me for two weeks that we’d lost our buyer and then lied about why he hadn’t told me.
i suppose what I want is some acknowledgment that she hurt me too. This has gone on nearly two years. She has said some horrible things to me, surely much worse than my initial offence. She never apologized for her own words.

No I wouldn’t say they are toxic.

There was an incident where you got angry and said some things to her about BIL. At the end of the day he is her husband. So even if she agrees with you she will take his side. So she was upset and angry at you. And said some things to you to hurt you. Tit for tat.

These things linger in families. I know as we have had similar. Nobody will ever forget but we have to let it go and move on if we still want to have a relationship. At the end of the day none of us were perfect in what happened and how we dealt with things. I suspect it’s the same with you and your sister.

I’m confused you said spiteful things to your son ( ?) your ( I assumed sister in law) spews out a lot I hate
you’ve had a break and now she us being friendly

either you gloss over past remarks and carry on being nice or you stay angry and nc

it all depends on if this was a storm in a teacup fueled by stress and really means nothing or this argument bought a lot if home truths out in the air

your call , they don’t sound toxic you had a fall out with nasty words exchanged

Big mistake to use him for the work. Family and business rarely mix well. I also was confused with your post. So it is your sister, with which you share the property interest? I thought you were talking about your son (DS).

So you still feel he was dishonest (even though you never considered that, but you’ve just stated clearly that he lied)?

Sorry, new to MN. I meant my sister.
I say toxic because she made things up and denied stuff she’d staid. Made my head spin. She was so hostile and cruel. I was really shocked because I thought we were closer than that.

I don’t think it matters whether or not money changed hands — I would still never use a family member as a go-between in that way. The potential for conflict is huge, as you’ve seen.

If you feel there are still things to say about your altercation, all you can do is write to her about it (if you’re still not seeing one another in person), though face to face or phone might be better. Though it may simply rekindle the spat. I suppose you need to decide what’s more important — a renewed relationship with your sister or an apology.

But you’d just lost your temper and said ‘spiteful things’ about her husband to your sister. Had he told her the truth about the situation, or did she not know about the lost buyer either?

She told me I’d implied he had an agenda. I didn’t think that, I didn’t imagine he was financially dishonest but I know he tells a lot of lies (she’s told me that!).

Thanks for your summary of the situation.

But I didn’t use him as a go-between. I’ve obviously explained very badly! Our mum left us a flat. We couldn’t sell it so took on a tenant. When she died we decided to sell and. My husband and I said we’d deal with the management company and my sister and her husband said they’d deal with the estate agents. Division of labour.

That’s exactly what I meant. He dealt with the estate agent, and was supposed to feed back to you any information about viewings, offers, etc. A go-between. Your issue was that he failed to pass on the information about a buyer dropping out for a fortnight. My question was whether he’d told your sister, or whether he withheld the information from her too? And if your sister was supposed to be dealing with the estate agent, too, was it not also her fault?

Its in both of your interests to put it behind you if you want to sell the property. It's quite common for families to fall out over inheritance assets. I don't think they are being toxic and the fact that you call your family "these people" is very telling

I don’t know if he told her about it. I think not because I’m fairly sure she would have told me ASAP. I wonder if she was covering for him and that’s why she was so furious with me.
He has been known to buy furniture, book holidays and even rent a house without consulting her.
My worry is that he is toxic and controlling and that she’s been sucked in. I need to separate out my own part in this. The bottom line is that I feel very uneasy about this whole situation.

I agree with most of this! You say it’s’telling’ - what does it tell you?

..that you call your Sis and BIL these people. Sounds quite distant and cold but maybe that's because there's underpinning resentment between you and sis? We are currently selling my late mum's property and at the beginning we had fallout over a breakdown in communication. It's very stressful, so things get said that have been stored up in the past.

I think you and your sister had a falling out and said nasty things to each other. That you have both resumed a tentative relationship, and her approach to that is to keep things light and friendly. I don't see anything there to justify the use of labels such as 'toxic'. It's just where you are in your relationship with her. If you're not happy with that, then you have the choice to ramp up the drama by asking her not to send the letters, or simply to read them, reply as you see fit and otherwise get on with your life.

He didn’t tell you for 2 weeks, whilst not ideal it doesn’t seem a heinous crime. Some people are just a bit ‘shit at life’ and can’t do anything admin like at all.

Are you up to your elbows in work or other stuff because I would say it was a mistake for your sister and you not to just do it between you and why involve the husbands. My MIL is elderly and has cancer. Her estate is going to be complicated as hell. There is zero way I’m getting involved in any decision making. I will give opinions if directly asked but that’s it I’m not doing any of the work.

Are you actually my sister?! Yes, things have been stored up and used as ammo by her. Unreasonable things imo like’You have never been to visit us’ - just not true! I’ve never felt comfortable around her OH and she must know it but I can’t help it.

If this was all a repeating pattern of behaviour it could be a toxic relationship; but this was one event, a falling out which is common over an inheritance.

You have a choice; continue to hold out for an apology or smooth things over and get the property sold.

This is from the op - posted via email alert. Sorry for confusion

Are you the OP?