Manager asking me to attend a meeting tomorrow when I’m not working tomorrow

[PondAndSea]

I’m a kinship foster carer to 2 family members children.

I also work full time. A few weeks ago I told my manager that I won’t be working tomorrow (9th June) as I’m attending our local fostering service conference (arranged by the council that I foster under). Work never officially agreed to me having the day off for the fostering conference but they never said no either, I basically just told them I wasn’t working that day because I was attending the fostering conference which is important and work or my manager never actually said yes to it but they didn’t say no either.

Today my manager has rang me up asking me to attend a meeting tomorrow morning and then has got very annoyed with me when I reminded him that I wasn’t working tomorrow because I’m at the fostering conference. He’s known for weeks that I’m attending the fostering conference tomorrow so won’t be working that day, and it’s only one day and I never have any time off (except annual leave. But I’ve never been off sick or anything).

My manager is now very annoyed that I won’t be at the meeting tomorrow that he wants me to attend.

AIBU to think he shouldn’t be annoyed at me over this?

There’s not a lot that I can do though as I need to attend the fostering conference and it’s only one day! He also knows that I will catch up on any work missed tomorrow as well.

Annual leave should always be a tell and not an ask - it is part of your compensation package and you have a right to have it.

it is your work’s right however to reject with a a good business reason.

2 month’s notice is wild. I have never worked anywhere with that sort of policy. Apart from summer holiday of 2 weeks and some other ad hoc days that I know about, most of my leave is booked a bit on the hoof.

if you emailed your manager and he replied OK I would absolutely have taken that as permission

Ignore all the jobs worths. You told him you’re off, he acknowledged your email, implying consent. You’re a person who has a life outside of work. He’s not going to sack you, so don’t worry about it. He’s annoyed because he forgot. Not your problem

Has she? I’ve read all OP’s posts and beyond “I need to go” I can’t see that she’s given an actual reason. Mea culpa if she has and I’ve missed it!

This would be equivalent to going to a child's medical appointment (which could be all day if far away/involving assessment) so you might have been able to take parental leave/carer's leave.

When we were applying to adopt we had to take AL to go to training which we were not massively happy about as if you are pregnant you don't have to take AL to go to pregnancy related appointments, and prenatal classes will be in the evenings but adoption classes never are.

While ok ia pretty much confirmation you should have still got a solid answer/reminded him a few days later.

As I said I always put it in my managers diary if it hasn't gone through the usual approval channels.
My boss always replys ok to absolutely everything (he's pretty relaxed about time off) but I also know if I don't remind him he will forget.

As a PP said I think you are both to blame here.

Guess it depends if its allowable to be paid or required to take annual leave on your company policies so no one can answer that one.

Well he has said yes. He said “ok” which in the context of telling someone you won’t be in can only be construed as acceptance of that. I’d just refer him back to his email where he agreed it.

Are you her manager? Why do you care if she needs to attend or not lol. She’s going to attend and she feels she can’t miss it, end of

I wasn't quoting the OP directly but in my view “I need to go” is the same as she must attend. As I said before, we don't need to hear the "actual reason", why she needs to attend, as that's none of our business.

Log in from home, put your out of office on for tomorrow and deal with it on Tuesday.

I'm so glad I don't work for most of the people on this thread!

This is a him problem, he said okay, and forgot. He also needs to stop harassing you on your day off.

No it isn’t. She told her manager she needed the day off. He said “ok”. If he didn’t mean that because he was too busy or didn’t like how she phrased it then he’s an idiot. But he’s responsible for his side if any communication. If he wanted the OP to do anything else (eg let the team know, book it through the AL system etc) he should have said that. It’s for him to manage his emails and calendar, and not the OPs responsibility to manage or second guess her manager.

Imo you should have followed up with an email to your manager asking for the day off. E.g. if you had a medical appt for that day, surely you would follow up and the manager has to respond without citing the company policy that you need to give two months notice?

Failing that if you have an urgent meeting that you need to go to, then you will have to take a sick leave day and have that on your record?

@PondAndSea it's wonderful that you are so committed to your fostering journey that you want to attend. But no you don't have to attend the fostering conference, it would be great if you could as you'll probably have some great development opportunities but they are not mandatory. I would say if it had been a child specific meeting - for example fostering panel, if it's still in proceedings a court hearing, potentially even a PeP or CiC review maybe you'd be right. But a conference is a great development and training opportunity but it is not mandatory - your supervising social worker shouldn't be putting you under pressure to attend if it's putting you in difficulties at work and they should also be able to support you find developments opportunities outside of your working time - particularly as a connected carer.

Very much our business when she's asking us if she's being unreasonable or not.

Yes fair enough – I suppose I retract my question and instead ask whether OP has made it clear to her manager why it’s an essential she attends. Unfortunately employers are under no obligation to give leave when it’s requested so if OP has requested leave outside of the standard policy, there would need to be a good reason, I would imagine.

ETA: not sure why it cleared the quote but this was in reply to @ReadingSoManyThreads

It seems strange the conference date was only released 3 weeks prior. Could this fall under parental leave maybe? It is mandatory you attend as part of the fostering agreement.
I guess it all comes down to your organisational policies.

I agree. If she’s communicating so poorly with work it’s not surprising there’s been issues.

YABU if you didn’t check that you could definitely have the time off or if you didn’t request it as annual leave.

Sorry but there is a usual process and approval system. OP had to request out of that because of the 2 month rule. So really should have followed up and made sure/put a reminder in his diary. Anything outside of the usual approval you should absolutely make sure they know/ remember.

He's being unreasonable because he did say OK and has clearly forgotten. He's unreasonable to get so mad about it.

You're a bit unreasonable
He's a bit unreasonable
Everyone's being unreasonable!

At this stage just reply
Sorry X there has clearly been some miscommunication/crossed wires here. I cannot not attend now since it's tomorrow. Therefore I will be back at my desk Tuesday and happy to be filled in on the meeting then.
Maybe we can also put in a system for these appointments going forward that works for us both so we avoid this in the future

Well two things strike me as unreasonable here:

1. Your company claiming they need 2 months notice for taking annual leave. I can see that being the case if you want to book a week or a fortnight, but for one day? Come on! Surely it's not that uncommon for people to need to take the odd day off at shorter notice.
2. Your manager is ringing you today, Sunday, to attend a meeting tomorrow. Smacks of bad planning on his part.

Also OP has he said/ do you know what this meeting is about?

Honestly so funny seeing how different people are. If I need to be off for something important, I’m taking it. I’d never work for a company that made me feel like my life wasn’t the priority over the needs of the company. I’m being paid to do a job, and I do it well, but my life is more important than the job. People thinking she should be chasing her manager up after he’s consented, begging politely for a day off, or refuse to attend an important meeting is so alien to me. Her manager messed up, he’s agreed, she has the email to prove it.

The ignorance some people have around fostering.....

A conference in this context is not the same a work conference, which we all know is a bit of skive with a free dinner thrown in. It can be anything from seeing how things are going in their fostering arrangement right up to a full on formal meeting due to serious issues/allegations arising. I good friend of mine is is fostering a her step grandson (sort of....child of her childs former partner) and the birth parent has made several allegations or demands that all need to be looked into. There are investigations, then a case conference then another because the birth parent doesnt agree with the outcome.... it goes on. Or it can be more low key open to all fosterers thing, about changes in the way the fostering is being overseen or somesuch. Point is, not attending any of these things WILL put a black mark against the OP's name and put those children at risk of losing their stable home.

Its just as important as taking a child with a chronic condition to their medical appointments.

I would be putting a hard stop to the messaging out of hours @PondAndSea Not on. He forgot, he sorted a meeting and I cant help wondering if he will be out of his depth without you there. In my experience of this sort of thing (happened alot when I was in management) the ones who got the most pissed off about missed meetings where the ones who were shit at their jobs and were expecting others to carry them.

Yeah the 2 month thing for 1 day seems wild. We have a loose 2 week rule for anything over 2 days and a loose 1 month rule for anything over 1 week but for 1 day 2 month notice is absolutely insane

Two months notice for one day of holiday leave is ridiculous. I'd argue that's an unfair contract term.