To ask, honestly now, do some people see and treat 50 year old women differently according to whether or not they’ve had children?

[HolisticApp]

By ‘children’ I mean this includes kids over 18 - so not necessarily women in the throes of ‘family life’ as it were.

I don't think titles Ms, Miss, Mrs are a legally binding part of your name and you can just switch over as each identification renews. Although, like I say, I did this from the get go - so it's worth double checking

As do most people.

Sally, from my previous example, no one socialises with because she's not that nice. And just bangs on and on and on about her awful ex husband. She'd probably tell you she was treated differently because she's "xyz" (insert whatever, because it's irrelevant) because in her mind, it can't possibly be that's she's just a bit of a self important dickhead who people don't want to spend time with out of choice. Must be the fact she hasn't got a husband/wife/kid/dog...

That's not a conflation, it's just linking (which is not the same as conflating) two things @Holluschickie doesn't have personal experience of.

If she'd said she doesn't have any experience of studying a maths degree or a degree in archaeology that wouldn't mean she's saying they're the same.

This^. I'm 66, childfree and do loads of different things that aren't child-related, and am happy to chat.

I went to a particular Pilates class once, and all the other participants (around my age) had kids and therefore grandkids. Or were expecting them That's what the conversations revolved around, almost entirely. (The other topic was 'who saw <whatever> on TV last night.) I couldn't contribute at all.

Interestingly, the excellent tutor ran another class, for ladies of a similar age, that was completely different.

That’s fair if you don’t want to understand different experiences of the world. I find it interesting to see other experiences and perceptions of society so always try to take myself and my experiences out of it when someone is discussing their own. (I don’t always succeed in doing so - humans will always put their own experiences first, but I do try to listen when others are talking about theirs). But yes, they are all essentially different flavours of the same brand of patriarchy.

I'm 50 and childfree. I don't go round announcing that (I don't mean I hide it, I mean I don't make it my entire personality and shoehorn it into conversations) and I think a lot of people at work assume I have children, just from how conversations go - they're talking about their DC doing whatever and say "you know how it is" - I nod along rather than saying "Nope, not a clue!"

More empathetic generally,or just more empathetic towards other parents?

I prefer 'Ms' but I can never get it to 'stick' - always get 'Mrs' - I am married so I'm not too bothered, my preference for Ms is on the principle that women shouldn't have to declare their marital status in their title.

I totally agree. Men don’t change their title according to their marital status, why should we?

I'm 45, childfree, as many of my friends, and I can hand on heart say that I've never felt treated differently or alienated because of my childless status.

There was maybe one lady who said to me that it was a bad idea to not have kids, but I've just shrugged it off, and I've never felt any pressure whatsoever.

I don't mind parents talking about their kids, it's normal to talk about something that takes such a huge place is one's life, I'm able to be interested and participate in conversations about kids.

Now at my age, my friends' kids are mostly grown ups, so we rarely talk about them beside news about A Levels, uni etc...

Yeah, I think so on principle too. Fortunately I had a brilliant English A-Level teacher who made a convincing case for Ms, which I ran with. There's only really my mil who objects and I can live with that.

I did mean towards parents.

This thread in parts does come across as a bit wanting a piece of the current victimhood trend.

Fellow people will always judge, think things, say clumsy things, have opinions on pretty much everything about each other.

You can't always pathologise everything into "AHH, but this is a unique kind of micro aggression" if you have to add "-micro" on the front of it, quite frankly it's not an aggression at all. It's just an Ill thought out comment or gesture.

When the hell did we all become so over sensitive?

Sometimes it's the responsibility of the receiver to shake off the Ill thought out comments or assumptions - we used to call it resilience. Too many people looking to wear the victim cloak and give it it's own unique flavour in this current time

Say what now?

Honestly, I'm going to agree with this. Women spend more time under scrutiny than men but I don't think the solution is to build an identity around it. Make your decisions, give the world your two fingered salute and make the best of it.

Eh? as empathetic in their role?

I would be considerably more likely to call up a childless friend in the 50s to say "are you free tonight?" than one with kids. I'd be more likely to ask the one who had kids for parenting advice, and much less tolerant of unsolicited parenting advice from a childless 50-something than one who had bought up 6 kids.

NC but I’m 43 and yes
I’ve had people turn away and start talking to the other person there because I’ve said I don’t have children

I’ve had a major operation and 4 days later been added to a group to donate/organise flowers/food to someone who has had a TFMR. None of them sent me even a card

That's probably more to do with them now thinking she may have a husband or partner that they didn't realise about.

Men like that respect other men (and see women as their property) rather than them suddenly respecting her because she has a child.

By the time women are 50 the majority ( I know people here breed late) have got grown children. So not sure why different commitments

Why would you call up a childless friend first?

Forgive my ignorance - TFMR?

It’s interesting that poster who said about the life experience naivety (or words to that effect) of childfree woman hasn’t responded to the various questions and challenges to what she said, but has now come back and said this thread sounds like some wanting a bit of “victimhood”.

I’m not tagging them only because I’ve already directly quoted them and they’ve not replied. At least not directly.

anyway I’m off to enjoy my weekend exploring a new city lol my naivety maybe 😂

@childfree2025 I don’t know what a TMFR is but that sounds rough OP about no one sending you a card but asking you to contribute to someone else. I no longer engage in one sided friendships be they be with childfree friends or friends with kids.

ETA:

I understand it can’t be 50/50 all the time but it can’t be me giving 80% effort all the time and them rarely showing up for me. One of the best friends I’ve had has 4 kids and works a corporate job.

She is great at attending my events and remembering me generally. If she forgets sometimes that’s fine but some people make a habit of it while expecting you to be there for their kids birthdays/ baby showers etc or just generally available

Termination for medical reasons (baby wasn’t properly developed at 11 weeks)

There’s a difference between stating a fact - yes, women without children get treated differently - and being a victim. None of us are saying we’re victims as that would be silly ans immature (something that we’re not despite what some parents think).
I’ve also seen women with children being treated differently, in a negative way, but that doesn’t make them victims either.
Its very undermining to all women’s experiences.