To ask, honestly now, do some people see and treat 50 year old women differently according to whether or not they’ve had children?

[HolisticApp]

By ‘children’ I mean this includes kids over 18 - so not necessarily women in the throes of ‘family life’ as it were.

Similar to my work place.

"Bev" is 62, two kids, couple of grandkids.
"Jane" is 59. Two kids, couple of grandkids
"Pippa" is 55. No kids.
"Sally" is 57. No kids.

All treated identical. Sometimes Bev and Jane discuss going somewhere with the grandkids. Sometimes Jane and Pippa go cycling together because they like fitness. Jane also goes for walks with Steph (30 something, no kids, has a dog as does Jane, hence the walks.) No one goes anywhere with Sally but that's because she's a bit of a dickhead who turns every conversation in to talks about how awful her ex husband is.

I'm in my 50s and don't have children. How would I know if I'm treated better or worse than if i had had children?

I'm not conscious that not having children has counted against me. I'm long-term single which may help people's expectations. I have had other women gently envious of my 'freedom' but they also obviously can't imagine their own lives without their children.

You’re quite right.

I’m not a childfree 50 years old. I’m over a
decade younger than that but I am childfree. I won’t speak on how women who are no longer able to have kids - and have none - are treated.

This post should be " Why do women have to put up with sexual comments in the workplace?". Irrelevant if they have children or not.

You are right, I remember during a training course one of the men asked during coffee break “are we all parents here?”

How do you know it is less?

What an ignorant tosser!

Treated differently when? Many parents over 50 have adult children and it isn’t immediately apparent if they have children or not.

The older generation in my extended family treat me very differently to my female cousins, all of whom have children. I’m childless by circumstance and the mums are very much put on a pedestal. I even overheard my aunt saying last year that I was the one who “couldn’t get her life together to meet someone and have a family” like I hadn’t even been trying.

At work people are respectful but it is assumed that I will cover all the overnight stay work for the colleagues with children, and take my leave outside school holidays, but my line manager always makes a point of checking wither I would like to take time off then just in case. She also has no kids.

Arh ok
this might be more they found out she had “back up”
a single woman no children - what’s she going to do?
but a potentially feisty 25 year old daughter
or they find out she is actually married
totally different ball game in some minds

@HolisticApp my experience working amongst primarily women with children (I am now 52) is that there has always has a been a sort of unconscious bias towards them. I think it might be because most people of working age beyond 30 or so did have kids and they have shared experiences so they sort of bind with them more. As I reached more senior grades, it happens there also. New managers want to know all about you and love hearing if people have kids and it gives them the chance to talk about their own and any grandkids on the way. It’s made me feel quite an outsider which is compounded by the fact I have no family at all so there’s really nothing to tell them and I feel it marks me out as the odd one out. So yes, often without realising it, I feel child free/less women are treated as different in nuanced ways. I’ve just accepted it as a fact of life and not anything that I let overly concern me.

If someone asks me if the uk is racist or homophobic, as a white woman in a relationship with a man, I’m not best placed to answer.
You can have an opinion on it based on your perceptions though.

.... yes hetero men can interact differently based on how available they think a woman is .

Hetero Women do the same to attractive male colleagues !!

There is a lot of derision on this forum towards people without kids for a start.

And you often get 'Why are you even on Mumsnet?'.

I do wish there were a female equivalent of reddit.

I am child free and just over 50. I assume people treat me as a bit younger as I am still commitment free and do what I want always. Have more noisy hobbies that I enjoy. Go away on fun holidays.
very different to a mother of children who may be 18 or off to college or having grandkids. Other priorities. More grown up I suppose.
whereas my life at 50 is very similar to my life at 30.

One example - at one office Christmas party the CEO made a speech congratulating “all of our wonderful staff members who have become parents this year”.

I am so deeply uninterested in other people's kids. I can't fathom why they are interested in mine.
There is so much more to talk about in the world. Especially when you are 50+.

Thanks again all for your replies

My personal attitude is I have an identical attitude to those with children and those who are childless and don’t make assumptions either way.

The most emotionally mature, confident person I’ve ever met is a childless 39 year old, if I had to pick one, but a friend who is 50 and has 5 children comes an extremely close second. Both of these people were born in November as it happens - maybe it’s a November thing?

But seriously I think it’s a personality thing rather than whether or not someone is a parent that determines how I respond to them and my feelings towards them.

Ive always been impressed with one of my Dad’s old school friends as to how mature he is - he’s got adult children. I said to Dad “Alan would be in my Top 5 for maturity.” My Dad then said “am I in this list?” The truth was … no!! My own Dad is a classic example of very high achiever but not so mature emotionally - but I could hardly say that to my own Dad could I ? 😱

Oh absolutely this!

I'll be honest - I do view women who haven't had children by choice, differently. It's such a fundamental experience to life for me. It literally is a wholly encompassing life event for 20+ years. It shapes how you think, feel, grow, your outlook, the lot. I personally see it as the whole point of life (and yes I also have a decent enough career) .

To me, I just would struggle that they didn't have this wholly consuming experience that I'd had. But I'd never outwardly treat them differently, of course. There is usually a naiveté of "life experience" to such women IMHO. Don't flame me, I'm just giving my honest opinion.

It's the whole point of your life maybe. Not for others.
I have two DC and they are not the whole point of my life or all encompassing.

I think both mothers and single women are judged under patriarchy. Mothers are seen as 'spent' and men are more likely to speak to us 'normally' because we are no longer fuckable (particularly as we reach 40+). But equally mother is seen as an all encompassing role. We are more likely to be just seen as a mother and wife and overlooked for promotions and taken seriously because we can't possibly be confident and capable in the workplace whilst also being a mother.

Meanwhile, whilst they're still young, childfree women are more likely to be sexualised. There is more of a perception of 'career woman, such a girl boss", but this also comes with labels like 'selfish' and 'must be a bitch'. Then obviously as they age and also become not fuckable, the childfree are looked at as crazy spinster cat women or etc.

It's two sides of the same coin. One side does not have it worse. Women are judged harshly for not wanting a traditional home set up, but the world and workplace is also not accommodating for mothers.

I hate it when people put mother's against the childfree because our struggles are similar and our interest is the same: liberation from patriarchy.

I am a childfree 50 year old woman who works with a variety of people. I don’t find that I’m treated differently now, compared to when I was in my 30’s and 40’s. The most recent experience I had was a few months ago when a man in his 30’s with a new baby told me off for not being interested enough to ask about said new baby. We were in a serious, formal meeting and it wasn’t the time or place to ask about personal things. I did ask him if he’d ever considered asking me about how my life was and he said no because I didn’t have kids so didn’t really have one. Such a charmer.
I get more judgement for being single to be honest. I was divorced a long time ago but most of my colleagues now don’t know that so they definitely have me in the single, childless old spinster box.

I disagree with your opinion but I think is good you’ve been honest about it.

I think this shows people are treated differently often and in some cases less favourably.

People who have @SquashedMallow opinion will most likely show how they feel in various ways.

I find it interesting about the naivety of life experience thing and laughable tbh.

I have lived abroad 3 times, travel solo a lot, worked with children in care and in PRUs and worked with adults with addiction issues. I have friends from all around the world and from very different cultural and social backgrounds.

And then I have mates from my childhood town who have worked in the same job since they were 18, never left their hometown , have had the same group of friends from their youth ( who all think/look/talk like them), but yet someone would say I’m more naive than them just because I don’t have kids and they do?

Erm... I don't think I accused you of any such thing did I ? I was giving my opinion.