To ask if boys can wear coloured gingham school shorts?

[Makingitupaswegoalong]

DS starting school in September. I’ve never liked the grey boys’ school shorts. I think they’re horrible.

Could a boy wear the shorts version of the summer dresses in the warmer months? The ones like this:
https://direct.asda.com/george/school/shorts/light-blue-girls-gingham-longer-length-school-shorts/G008057152,default,pd.html?redirectFromInt=1&cmpid=ppc--geor-------_-dskwid-_dm&utm_campaign=pla:Fashion-School-_Performance_Max&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17501196607&gbraid=0AAAAADt8Wcm1oMWVYoBrMZRAaJmY4OxHM&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgIXCBhDBARIsAELC9ZgYG9pdeZibdgD76_xniRBLDqnyyvZArL9DdLA7VsYiWE5zGC1CWE0aAkIFEALw_wcB

The little boys round here wear a lot of brightly coloured patterned leggings.

Why couldn’t they were these shorts? Are they obviously girly? Would people bully him or think we were weird? I just think they’re nicer.

Yet men don’t have these conversations.

Still think it’s not about social conditioning?

Exactly.

And there’s a slightly awkward underlying assumption of why they place more emphasis on outfits.

I’m not convinced it’s social conditioning. Most women I know are just more interested. Not all. Not every. We’ve all accepted people can be individual. But most women I know take more interest because … they do. That’s the same in most cultures. Men and women are often - not always but often - wired differently in that regard. Why is that a problem to the extent we have to deny it?

That wouldn't get 7 bells metaphorically kicked out of your child

I don’t agree though. I believe it’s social conditioning. ‘Women should take care of their appearance’ and that includes wearing certain things in certain situations.

I don’t think there’s a gene sequence for that - I believe it’s a hangover from when women’s worth was measured in aesthetics.

And that’s why I believe it’s a problem.

Reception kids aren’t bullying anyone over what they wear without adult input.

If you are surrounded by people who teach kids to ostracise their peers, you need to pick better people in your life.

You seem to have an answer for everything @Dumbdog

I don't disagree with your idealistic views, but we live in the real world and sometimes some of us simply don't want to draw attention to ourselves or our children by being "different".

I’d be led by your son in this when the time comes, tbh.

Nothing will change if we don’t change it.

Girls will still be paid less and pushed towards soft skills careers. Boys will still be pressured not to cry and value strength over kindness.

We have the power to change the fact that differences are something to be hidden, instead of celebrated.

Bullies will always find something to latch on to. I think it’s much better to undermine them at every opportunity.

Joe says your shorts are girly? Well Joe is very silly isn’t he? We know there’s no such thing as girl things or boy things. Just things. Just ignore Joe and play with Jack.

Years ago, boys played out a lot more than they do today, trousers would tear or wear at the knees. A pair of shorts could be worn until outgrown and then passed on. A pair of trousers would be repaired a few times, but just wouldn't last so long.

I can see you think that. But we’ve had different experiences with different family, different Dc.

People differ.

ETA I started out parenting with your attitude. Before anyone else other than my DH and i had input, there were distinct gender stereotypical inclinations. That has influenced my understanding.

Men have far less options on clothes and have a standard pub uniform, jeans and t-shirt. Or if going dancing trousers and shirt.

Yes - but why?

Do you really think there’s an outfit gene sequence somewhere on the X chromosome? 😂

Genes are complex.

Women tend to hear babies crying in the night whereas men sleep through.

That doesn’t mean men are absolved from night duties btw.

Yes, I know people differ. I’ve been banging on about not upholding stereotypes because I don’t believe everyone is the same.

There was absolutely no difference in my kids (I have both sexes) until the outside world started influencing what is deemed appropriate for them to do and wear.

If anything, my son is more affectionate and gentle. My daughter more physically able at a younger age.

So out of our anecdata sample of 2 families, we have vastly different experiences.

All that shows me is that something else is going on behind the gender stereotypes.

My husband never slept through but I sometimes did 🤷

Not sure why men have less options. But it starts young. And there are social conventions around clothes.

Men get far more use out their clothes.They can get away with wearing the same suit to multiple weddings, work, the races or the same dinner suit to multiple black-tie events.

I'm in Scotland lots of men will buy a kilt for their own wedding then wear it to other weddings and events.

Imagine rocking up in your wedding dress to someone elses wedding 😆. Women end up buying expensive dresses to wear once maybe twice!

It’s also just as likely to be hormones as genes. I presume you accept hormone profile differs?

In any case the role of many of our genes is still largely undiscovered. We know they exist but not much about them, so I’m not sure why you find it unthinkable that there is an “interested in clothing” gene.

Im my experience kids just want to be like their friends so unless he’s particularly said anything I’d go with the grey.

And adults aren't much different. Most people want to blend in. Wither it be at work whatever the office wear is, the pub, out to dinner.
Even for women nobody wants to turn up in a fancy dress if everyone else is in jeans.

I reckon Dumbdog would have a field day on the Style and Beauty pages 😁

Where did you get that photo of my dad and Uncle John?! 🤷‍♀️ 😅

I think in general, this thread has quickly drifted into people arguing at cross-purposes.

It's not a thread asking "In general, is it sexist and bigoted that women can wear trousers but men can't wear dresses".

It's a thread about whether, when your four year old is starting school, it's a wise use of your time, focus and social and political capital to ask the school if he can wear a non-uniform item that he has expressed absolutely no interest in. And whether that is in the best interests of the child.

Cool. You put your little boy in some flouncy gingham shorts and see what happens.

I suspect, at age 4, the only thing that will happen is that the boy eventually asks for grey shorts like his friends have. Meanwhile, all the other mums are quietly thinking 🤨 "guess someone really wanted a girl".

Grayson Perry did a thing about Default Man. Essentially men in power wear the same dark grey suit with plain tie, they do everything possible not to stand out. And it's not a surprise that men don't like wearing ties because that was the only colourful part of business attire.

Basically men don't want to stand out and as such all end up wearing the same clothes where navy is considered "colourful". Teenage boys is the grey tracksuit and black gillet, which then progresses to business attire of navy trousers, blue shirt and navy gillet or casual attire of navy jeans, white t-shirt and navy gillet.

A lot of talk about women making sure that they get the right clothing for the right occasion is more about fitting in with the rules and showing respect to the rules and others, whereas there are men who think rules don't apply to them and should be instantly respected because they're men and jeans and a polo shirt are suitable for all formal events.