Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

PassingStranger · 05/06/2025 21:48

She should have her phone taken off her as well
Stupid parents probably bought that phone and she's using it to film violence.
How low can society go.

WrigglyDonCat · 05/06/2025 21:54

JHound · 05/06/2025 21:29

Murder requires intent.
You could punch somebody they slip, hit their
head and die. I cannot see why that would earn the death penalty.

Murder is unlawful killing but only requires the intent to cause serious harm, not necessarily the the intent to kill. If that serious harm is death then it is murder.

I think it would have been a hard sell to suggest that the delightful individuals involved did not intend to cause serious harm, as such the manslaughter charges would seem to be nothing more than a convenient way to reduce the sentences possibly because of their age.

Velmy · 05/06/2025 22:15

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/06/2025 21:25

I understand that the perpetrators were children and that this would have been a mitigating factor, but notwithstanding their age, it is very hard to see how these sentences are in any way appropriate for a racially aggravated murder. I'm not really clear as to why they went for the lesser charge of manslaughter. The perpetrators were clearly old enough to understand what they were doing.

I really feel for the family. It must feel like there has been no justice at all.

Being "... clearly old enough to understand what they were doing" is irrelevant to the distinction between murder and manslaughter.

To get a murder conviction you have to convince a jury that the defendant's actions were taken with the express intention of doing harm so serious it would end the victim's life.

It is extremely unlikely that this boy set out with the intention to kill the man that day, and even less likely that a jury would be convinced of that.

The victim suffered catastrophic injuries largely because he was incredibly frail, rather than purely due to the severity/duration of the attack. The boy kicked him, punched him to the ground and hit him with his flip-flop.

If he'd have kicked his head around like a football, stamped on his neck, stabbed him in the chest etc, it may have been different. But the reality is that it's often difficult to prove pre-meditation (as it should be) and as a result, manslaughter is seen as a much safe route when there's doubt involved.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/06/2025 22:19

Velmy · 05/06/2025 22:15

Being "... clearly old enough to understand what they were doing" is irrelevant to the distinction between murder and manslaughter.

To get a murder conviction you have to convince a jury that the defendant's actions were taken with the express intention of doing harm so serious it would end the victim's life.

It is extremely unlikely that this boy set out with the intention to kill the man that day, and even less likely that a jury would be convinced of that.

The victim suffered catastrophic injuries largely because he was incredibly frail, rather than purely due to the severity/duration of the attack. The boy kicked him, punched him to the ground and hit him with his flip-flop.

If he'd have kicked his head around like a football, stamped on his neck, stabbed him in the chest etc, it may have been different. But the reality is that it's often difficult to prove pre-meditation (as it should be) and as a result, manslaughter is seen as a much safe route when there's doubt involved.

Edited

I understand what you're saying, and I'm sure that from a legal perspective, you're absolutely right. But the victim was visibly very frail, and it's hardly rocket science that he would be significantly more vulnerable. I honestly find it very hard to believe that the perpetrator didn't realise that he was going to kill the poor man, even if that wasn't his explicit intent at the outset.

Paul2023 · 05/06/2025 22:25

Murder is a difficult charge to prove but the sentence is still pathetic. The boy was 15, old enough to know right from wrong. It was only a few decades ago 15 years old left school and went to work.
Yes he’ll be out in 3 years and I doubt this piece of human excrement will have any remorse.

WrigglyDonCat · 05/06/2025 22:26

Velmy · 05/06/2025 22:15

Being "... clearly old enough to understand what they were doing" is irrelevant to the distinction between murder and manslaughter.

To get a murder conviction you have to convince a jury that the defendant's actions were taken with the express intention of doing harm so serious it would end the victim's life.

It is extremely unlikely that this boy set out with the intention to kill the man that day, and even less likely that a jury would be convinced of that.

The victim suffered catastrophic injuries largely because he was incredibly frail, rather than purely due to the severity/duration of the attack. The boy kicked him, punched him to the ground and hit him with his flip-flop.

If he'd have kicked his head around like a football, stamped on his neck, stabbed him in the chest etc, it may have been different. But the reality is that it's often difficult to prove pre-meditation (as it should be) and as a result, manslaughter is seen as a much safe route when there's doubt involved.

Edited

He didn't need to have the intention to kill the man, just the intent to cause him serious harm.

Manslaughter could also have been offered as an alternative verdict to murder if a jury had doubts about a murder conviction.

It would interesting to hear a criminal lawyer's take on this, but I find it difficult to see from the outside why you wouldn't pursue murder, with the possibility of manslaughter open to the jury.

Todaywasbetter · 05/06/2025 22:34

the police knew about racist attacks in that area but did nothing - that gave permission for this cruel attack. Its heartbreaking that his own family where the ones to find him - so close. I hope they can appeal the sentence. Its too short especially the girls - what message does it give to the children round there?

Dangermoo · 05/06/2025 22:46

Forseeability and appreciation of consequences of acts are what I remember from reading law a long time ago. The degree of culpability in murder has different layers; a complex area of law. CPS probably thought the threshold for manslaughter was easier to prove.

Dramatic · 05/06/2025 22:53

SingleMama0 · 05/06/2025 20:37

7 years? How long do you think they should get? I think imo 7 years is a good sentence given the boy was 14 when the offence happened. My opinion. People make mistakes, stupid decisions when youre an adolescent. He did wrong. I think 7 years is fair

You know what stupid decisions I made as an adolescent? I kissed a boy who had a girlfriend, I used a fake ID to buy some cider and got drunk in a field, I once graffitied on a bus stop, I bunked off school and I was rude to my parents. I never randomly decided to murder a pensioner though, in fact nothing I did hurt another human being, this goes beyond a teenager being rebellious or making "mistakes"

AmIthatSpringy · 05/06/2025 22:56

PassingStranger · 05/06/2025 21:28

Who are the parents, name and shame. It's time parents were held to account when their children are going round doing this.
The country has got to change.

Agree with this. These scumbags will have been dragged up

Dweetfidilove · 05/06/2025 23:06

The sentence is pathetic even for a chatge of manslaughter, which can carry a life term.

I sometimes see the sentences and think I could do the time myself if someone did this to mine ☹️.

Smugzebra · 05/06/2025 23:19

This country is absolutely pathetic for sentencing crime. I feel sad for this man and his family. His life was precious and those vile kids shouldn't have a chance at any years of decent life after doing that but he will get out and have most of his adulthood ahead of him. What a disgrace.

Parsley1234 · 12/06/2025 19:04

There has been another case in the old Bailey today 3 feral girls killed a 75 years old Colombian chap getting off a bus. These parents need to be named and shamed kids need to be punished harshly

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 19:19

Parsley1234 · 12/06/2025 19:04

There has been another case in the old Bailey today 3 feral girls killed a 75 years old Colombian chap getting off a bus. These parents need to be named and shamed kids need to be punished harshly

Another one that made me cry reading it.

TiredMame · 12/06/2025 21:22

They deserve the death penalty. Scum like this are of no use to society and should not live among decent people. Scum.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 21:42

TiredMame · 12/06/2025 21:22

They deserve the death penalty. Scum like this are of no use to society and should not live among decent people. Scum.

Sorry if this offends anybody, but I completely agree

Parsley1234 · 12/06/2025 21:44

I think most normal people would agree. These kids are not fit for purpose they will never be an asset to society and their kids will be even more feral

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread