Sophie Ellis-Bextor concert. Ugh

[IOnlyWantSexMoneyPowerAndRevenge]

Saw her last week. Good fun. I missed the opportunity to wear my glittery Christmas dress though.

We all know she has legs that go on for days and likes to show them off (so would I if I had them!). At various points during the show she had to bend over (dropped something and so on). Every single time, at least one man wolf whistled. One man started and then others thought it was OK to join in.

I mean, really? They weren't sat near me or I would have said something. It pissed me right off. We were there to sing and dance to a bit of disco and grotty men insist on making their thoughts knoen about how attractive she is. As if anyone cares.

Most of the audience were 50+ which somehow made it even more grim.

Yuk just yuk.

I can confidently say she didn't bend over once during the show I saw - I know because I was in awe of her shoes and had she bent over I'd have expired from worry about her breaking an ankle or something. So either it was only part of the show in one area of the country for some reason or she happened to be a human doing human things on stage.

She has fabulous legs, if I was her I would show them off all the time. Shame about the grotty men, but sadly I think we are stuck with them for all eternity.

I have stood in disbelief, after a gig, watching a very drunk woman reach out and grope the knee of the singer, who at the time was posing for a photo with a couple (as in m/f couple) of fans. Drunk Woman tried it again a couple of minutes later; as her hand reached out, I have never seen anyone's arm fling out as fast as his did, to bat it away. I think she got the message by then. Handshakes and hugs are okay, groping is most definitely not.

I’m 48 and recovering from metastatic cancer. I miss being wolf whistled at, I feel so unattractive now.

I’d expect a bit of lighthearted whistling at a boy band/gurl band concert if the band is skimpily dressed or doing sexy dance moves. Don’t see how this is any different really. She’s singing fun disco songs in a glittery leotard and high heels, it’s hardly a serious musical performance. It would be equally silly for men to get annoyed about some tipsy women whistling and having fun at a Westlife concert.

I don’t agree at all with you. It’s a free country so she’s allowed to repeatedly highlight how gorgeous her legs are and they’re allowed to show their appreciation of her beauty. Why one rule for her and another for men? Most annoying post of the day

I think you’re being a bit naive here.
It sounds staged like she did this so people noticed her bending over.
No I don’t agree with the ‘she wore this therefore deserved to be raped’ but you can’t be that sheltered not to realise she likes the attention!!

I don't think she does like the attention. When she was sitting down singing slow songs she was like a different person, honestly. It suited her so much better - she seemed more comfortable and confident and she shone. I've never been a big fan of hers but when she sang in that way I was really impressed, way more than her disco numbers. I'm probably making up too much detail but it seems to me that she had accidental success in pop and made the most of it, but slower, more folky music is her real happy place.

I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s (a wonderful era to be young in) we threw our knickers at Tom Jones, The Beatles etc and got upset if we walked past a building site and DIDNT get whistled at!
Different times definitely and I’m not saying it was all good but I really think young people then were happier than they are today, also I don’t see a significant reduction of social/relationship problems in these “enlightened” times.

It's the context that matters here.

50-something men wolf whistling at a lone woman on the street. Unacceptable and harassment.

Wolf-whistling to show appreciation at a concert at which the performer wants to be admired. I don't have a problem with that, especially when the performer is close to their age. It might be more icky if it was Sabrina Carpenter they were ogling.

We will be for at least as long as the attitudes revealed in this thread prevail.

These men are 100% responsible for their own behaviour. What women wear is irrelevant. But it doesn't help when other women enable these men by doing the work of the patriarchy for it. I'm at a loss to understand this attitude, which I suspect is less about 'pick me' than some internalised assumption that if you dance the patriarchy dance, it will eat your face last.

It won't.

That women will all suffer from it in some way and at some time is an inevitability. Exactly why they would be cheerfully complicit with this is anyone's guess.

Cannot compute.

It was a wonderful era, except if you happened to be assaulted, raped or the victim of abuse. If, as a grown woman,you wanted credit in your own name, you were probably going to be disappointed too. Oh and your husband could rape you as much as he liked, because that wasn't a crime. That's before any discussion of harassment in the workplace, discrimination, etc etc.

I don't think our current era is great but past eras have horrors hidden behind the jolly wolf-whistling builders.

Is it just me or is there a load of incel/victim blaming types on this thread?

It always was??

Maybe one of the issues in this discussion is how people view wolf-whistling. I don't see it as an expression of appreciation at all. Whooping, clapping, cheering, all very postive and supportive (generally). Wolf-whistling has always felt aggressive to me - it has a mocking and belittling edge, and I feel like men do it as a way of asserting dominance, not of expressing appreciation. I can imagine if you think it's appreciative then the whole discussion seems a bit odd or over the top.

I'll add again that I didn't hear anyone wolf whistling at the concert I went to and the vibe was very friendly. I can imagine that whistling would have felt really icky and off-putting in that context.

Are you saying this doesn’t happen now? And yes I grew up to have credit in my own name - I don’t rely on a man.

Exactly!

Agree with all the above. The one thing the two eras have in common - and all others as far as I can see - is this. However much this behaviour is frowned upon, however much social attitudes have changed through the generations, the one consistent similarity is that when women suffer public humiliation or abuse at the hands of men, society will cheerfully look the other way and pretend it isn't happening. People in general are far more comfortable with the idea that women lie, or are making a big, hysterical fuss, than that men harass and abuse with impunity. Male sexual predilections are upheld at all costs and other issues, however urgent the safeguarding need or prevalence of the abuse of women and children, will be viewed as inconsequential. That rape/DV is de facto legal and woefully underreported tells a woeful story in this respect.

Whenever I read threads like this I ask myself the same question. Exactly who stands to gain by keeping this status quo precisely as it is?

OK, and did the men know what they were doing?

"At least one was definately genuine."

May Heaven preserve your innocence, my child.

Rape within marriage is currently a crime, so that has changed. The rules around credit have also changed, which is why you managed to get credit when you grew up. Rape and assault happens far too often but the way in which it is dealt with has moved on a lot - not enough by any means - but the way in which rape was dealt with in the 60s was utterly appalling.

Also, I come from Ireland where in the 60s if you had a baby out of wedlock the church would incarcarate you and sell your baby or, if it was one of the hundreds of babies that died, they would throw it in a septic tank.

I miss being whistled at 🤷🏼‍♀️

Of course, their comeback could well be that they aren't wolf whistling etc to attract women. Same as women say they aren't wearing tiny skirts to attract men. The "doing it for myself," excuse works both ways.

That's a really, really weird logic thinking you know that SEB would want a wolf whistle simply because she picks something off the floor. With that logic I can simply wolf whistle a tradesman with their crack on show as they are working. Wouldn't be weird at all....