My three year old boy causing havoc at preschool

[littleboy]

He’s not listening at circle time, disruptive during any lessons or activities where he just needs to sit and listen. He laughs at the teachers and just continues the behaviour.

they remove him if he’s too disruptive and ignoring them.

at home, he has a fair amount of tantrums and doesn’t listen particularly well. We use consequences like taking toys away, taking him out of the situation. We use a reward star jar for good behaviour and praise good behaviour as much as possible, rather than always focusing in on bad behaviour.

I deflect a lot, give options and pre-empt situations as to avoid fall outs / confrontations. I find that if I’m too confrontational with him, it just ends badly and he acts up even more. It’s almost as if he wants to go against what you want him to do, so it’s best to not use too many words sometimes and just get him to do it.

anyway, he’s definitely a hand full ! He turned 3 recently and is quite a clever little boy in many ways, but he does have days where he’s pretty unbearable and has a lot of tantrums. Clearly at preschool it’s also a strain on the teachers. Unless he’s fully engaged, he becomes disruptive.

any advice ?

He does sound a bit like my son at that age who was later diagnosed with both ASD and ADHD. But. Your son is still only 3, it’s very early to even be on the pathway for either- ADHD they won’t even consider assessing for several years. A lot can change, he’s not been in preschool very long, it’s a big change but also it sounds very rigid in structure. I thought that age would be different tables of activities and the children move around as they wish apart from snack and story time. I’m sure that’s the set up of the preschool classes my children went to. I wonder if it’s less an issue with your child being a “problem” and more the preschool is just not suited to him.

I also 100% agree with you OP about using too many words when giving instructions etc. this stuff needs to be clear and simple. Choices also work well for many children (not always easy when dealing with a class of small children tbf) “do you want to wear the blue trousers or the red trousers?” Coz either way you’re getting dressed.

My daughter was like this, she had hearing loss. It wasn’t permanent and her hearing reached the normal range by 6/7. We didn’t find out till she was about to turn 4 so I wish we knew at 3 when the behavior first became an issue, I was embarrassed collecting her most days. Definitely worth checking out OP.

Hi OP, I have a little boy similar age to yours and have had similar difficulties with him. I'm not sure what to advise, other than lots and lots of time outdoors in nature (as that has had tremendous positive effects on my son's behavior) and also a massive reduction in screen time.

These things have helped and so has just accepting that right now he's only 3 years old and is still learning a lot. It sounds like you are doing the best that you can, don't be hard on yourself. I'm sure one day his strong-willed nature will be of benefit when he uses it in a more positive way! (at least that's what I tell myself when my son is testing my limits lol)

It might be a verbal processing issue.

It might be a hearing issue. It's always worth getting a child's hearing checked if there are behaviour issues. A hearing deficit or glue ear can cause a lot of problems.

Some children with a verbal processing problem will do fine when engaged in an activity once it's been modeled to them. They see the activity - for instance painting - and get on with the job.

However, if someone sits them down and explains the painting activity verbally,, it's hard for them to follow, and because they become frustrated or impatient, they have a physical reaction (getting up and running around the room, laughing, singing, falling off their little chair, etc).

Obviously, a verbal processing issue makes story time or circle time very difficult. Following verbal instructions and engaging with a story become very difficult.

A child of three might be expected to follow a simple two step direction - 'go to the toy box and get the ball'. He might be able to follow a more complex, wordy instruction - 'bring the red cushion over here and put it down on top of these two green blocks'.

Maybe do a few experiments and see how complicated you can get in your instructions. At the very least, making listening into a game might be a useful.exercise.

It sounds as though the pre-school is not a good fit.
He sounds as though he would thrive in a more play/outdoorsy set up - which many pre-school boys would.

I don't have any advice as I could've written the exact same post, except my little boy is 4.

Nursery is threatening to exclude him from trips and days out, which i think will make him more distruptive and act up for attention.

I'm currently loaning books out from the library looking for some "expert advice".

I'm just hoping it's a phase and he grows out of it.

Hi, I don't really have any advice but my son was an utter nightmare from 2 upwards, very like your description of ds. He is now 24 and doing very well. But. I did NOT want him labelled with whatever diagnosis because everyone who had a badly behaved child was jumping on the bandwagon to excuse shit parenting.
I feel I done him a huge disservice as I think he has some form of add.
Get him started on some kind of pathway asap.
Good luck, it will get easier (with some help)
💐 🫂 x

Agree with everyone suggesting checking his hearing.

DS went to a Montessori nursery with forest school every afternoon, everything was hands on and kinesthetic. 3 year olds shouldn't be in structured lessons.
He's now in Y1 and exceeding expectations in lots of things.
I think if the first nursery got him to engage it's the provision that doesn't suit him rather than any huge issues.

Maybe he just isn’t ready to be in a structured childcare environment. Some boys really don’t thrive in those kinds of settings. There’s a boy at my child’s preschool who’s clearly the same.

He might get on better with a childminder in a smaller setting.

When my youngest DD was 4 or 5, she had a preschool teacher who told us "in her 35 years of teaching she's never come across a child as naughty as DD". It was awful to hear! DD is 14 now & a dream. She wasn't naughty. She was curious & bright. But because she didn't fit the mould she was deemed disruptive. Advocate for your child. You know them best.

Also, if you at all suspect any kind of neuro-divergence, it is so much better to flag now with the health visitor and get in the system before they start school. Once they start school the waiting list is something like four years but there is a brief window now where it’s much quicker to get a diagnosis. In our area anyway, I’m not sure about nationally.

Thanks, this is really interesting.

I will definitely try some more complex instructions.

but on the face of it, he seems like a very bright child with a lot of understanding of the world and how things work and when we give instructions, he does follow ( if he wants to ).

he speaks extremely well for a 3 year old and is able to have pretty long and complex conversations and also has a large vocabulary. His speech is advanced for 3 years old. He’s also extremely observant about how things work. He notices so many things and takes an interest in a lot of things that are surprising for a little child.

Why did you move him from nursery where it sounds like he was settled and doing well? Is it an option to move him back there?

Circle time? Wtf. He's 3. He's not interested in sitting and listening.

He's supposed to be running around, playing with Tonka trucks and getting muddy

And I see the ADHD tribe is out again.

He's 3. He doesn't need a label. He doesn't need a diagnosis. He's just a 3 year old.

To be honest it doesn't sound unusual. I work in preschool and we expect the children to sit down for circle time for a few minutes but our expectation of a just 3 year old and an almost 4 year old are totally different. If he only joined in Easter he is very new. I wouldn't see it as cause for concern yet in a developmental way, but it may be a concern within the classroom. They will need to find a strategy that works for him. In my experience the issue is what he does when he isn't listening at circle time. In my place we don't mind a kid staring into space or wriggling or twisting around but if they are pulling at other kids or shouting out of turn they will get told off. If they are really disruptive they can play elsewhere in the room but very quietly and within limited parameters, so its not a 'reward'. It's very unnatural for a child who has a permanent captive auditience at home to listen to other children and wait their turn to speak, its a hard lesson learn but hopefully he will get used to it.

I'm surprised he is laughing at the staff, most kids hate being reprimanded and don't react this way. If he was in my class I'd be tough on him to be honest but it really depends on his level of understanding.

This.
OP you need to firm up your parenting.
Your description of 'deflecting' a lot and focusing on praising good behaviours sounds an awful lot like you avoid telling him off when he's behaviour is naughty.

You need up toughen up a bit and start instilling a bit of respect for authority in him - laughing at teachers etc he sounds so rude!!

When teachers tell you on the door that he's been disruptive that day you should be backing them up and reinforcing, turning to him and saying in front of the teacher that his behaviour was not good enough and that he needs to follow instructions his teacher gives in class. He needs to see you modelling for him that the teacher is someone to be taken seriously!

I don't think the OP said anything about lessons. She mentioned Circke time and stories which are quite normal activities for 3 year olds. A 3 year old should be able to sit for a short while and take part in singing, finger rhymes and stories etc

Everyone saying ADHD - really? My 3 year old is very much like this too. I think it’s pretty normal, no?

I don’t know if he actually laughed at his new teachers, I need to double check. He definitely once laughed at one of the teachers in his old place and told her to shut up 🤦🏻‍♀️

he was two and a half then. He’s laughed at us when we are telling him off. He gets a time out for that or I take one of his stars or toys away for a bit.

Most 3 year olds manage a group activity for a short while.

Circle time is a staple for kids this age since when is it not appropriate to read 3yr old kids an interactive story, or sing songs or nursery rhymes.
How are people's expectations of children so low!! It's listening to a simple story probably with a large picture book, not asking them to write sentences in French!!

If your child at 3 told a teacher to shut up you have bigger problems on your hands because where has he learned its ok to tell someone to shut up, where is he seeing that modelled

Why does everyone jump to ASD or ADHD? I have 3 boys on the spectrum and they're not badly behaved. They would never laugh at a teacher, they do as they are told and they respect adults. They have their struggles that they need support with, but they are not badly behaved by any stretch of the imagination and they wouldn't dare tell an adult to shut up....because that behaviour is not tolerated, ever.

Our son is almost 3, and since he could move has been incredibly active (climbling, runing, jumping etc). He is engaged with other children and teachers and activities, but short of handcuffing him to a chair, circle time and organised meal times are nearly impossible for him to sit through. He was diagnosed with ASD recently, though very highly functioning, he is exceptionally smart. He is getting help with an occupational therapist to teach him how to sit quietly, and participate at these times. They use tools like timers, wobble cushions etc. People may say a child of that age is just being a boy, but if you've had multiple daycare workers tell you about it, I'm inclined to think that they are trying to propt you to get some assistance. The child in my DD's class who was similar got help at age 2 onwards, and now is able to sit through a classroom setting without assistance, so I think early intervention has big advantages if you're willing to entertain it.