To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

[JacquesHarlow]

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

I hate driving. I had a car for a while because I inherited it, but sold it during Covid. It was liberating as I'd almost stopped noticing what a money drain it was!

But being a one-car household does involve some logistics and accepting restrictions. Like, choosing to live within easy distance of one of our jobs. And sending the kids to the local school a 10 min walk away. Buying a bike trailer to allow for trips to the supermarket. Finding things to do at home rather than being able to spontaneously go out if DH has the car. Living somewhere with public transport.

I'd say some of these are desirable things anyway. And I am fortunate that buses around here are also not bad.

Not everyone could do it, of course lots of people need to drive as part of their job, but I think a high proportion could. They just don't want to. Just like people don't want to reduce their water usage / turn down the thermostat / stop flying.

If I were able I would ban those giant cars in London and other big cities. If you are a farmer or something then fine, but the proliferation of these hideous tanks in cities is just awful. I can only assume they are some kind of status symbol which speaks volumes about the sort of people who buy them!

When my dd was still in her buggy one nearly killed her reversing out of a side street, they saw me but not the buggy in front of me because the car was so high and huge. I have seen plenty of incidents like this, a dog was nearly run over a couple of weeks ago around the corner from me.

They take up too much of the road, they are dangerous when parked as you can't see round/over them when you are trying to get out of a parking space behind the.

@JacquesHarlow YANBU and YABU as you have listed too many points!

Yes, YANBU - there should be far more parking restrictions, and those houses with no parking space should not own more than one car registered to the house. That is the rule in some cities. Makes sense and should be everywhere, or at least in built up areas.

YABU about it being cheap. Car ownership is expensive when you consider depreciation, tax, insurance, MOT, petrol etc... The problem is, once you've paid for those, then the cost of a journey is SO much cheaper than taking public transport, so you might as well drive. e.g. to drive to my local town and back is £2 in petrol. The bus is £3 each way, so £6 return, and that's just for me! I'd have to pay for the kids.

But if there's no bus, people can't use it. That needs to be solved first. People can't "hop on" an imaginary bus!

I don't know what the fascination with big cars is, a status symbol maybe? I agree they often aren't needed. Of course some people do genuinely need a large car/vehicle for some reason.

But otherwise:

people worked more locally 150 years ago when the houses you speak of were built
new build estates often only have room for one car per house despite the fact we all know more space is needed so roads get clogged up
people move out later due to housing being so expensive so more cars to one house
a lot of households have two adults working compared to probably just one years ago, so two cars required
parents having to do school/nursery runs on their way to work hence school traffic
if you live in an even remotely rural area public transport isnt good enough
No one wants to spend hrs on public transport with various connections if they can drive it in 30 mins and pop into Asda on the way home. Time is valuable
Public transport isn't cheap enough so it's often cheaper to run a car

We live in a large village, the buses run every 30 mins during the day yet bizarrely they don't start this until 9am so they're useless if you have a 9-5 job as your either late or arrive an hour too early.

So basically tax the poorer people in society and the rich can carry on with impunity, no thanks.

I’ll add:

Living in a hamlet, I have a 2 mile walk to the nearest bus stop. That bus runs 3 times per day, starting at 8.30 am.

My nearest station is 3 miles away up a very steep hill.

The station to get a train to London is 10 miles away and in order to get to London in time to start work I am on a 6.30 am train so I leave home at 5.50 am.

My nearest hospital is 15 miles away. I would need to take the community bus to a town centre, change onto another bus to the hospital.

It takes me 15 mins to drive it.

For anything other than small local shopping, its a delivery or drive 15 mins.

Or should I walk 3 miles up a steep hill, take a 30 min train ride and repeat in reverse with bags I cannot carry.

My parents are 10 miles away and one of them needs a wheelchair. With 3 passengers and chair, that ain’t fitting in a small car.

My MIL lives 300 miles away in a small village outside a city. I can drive it in 5 hours. Public transport? Walk 3 miles up a steep hill with luggage, train, change train, train, change train, train. Bus to her village.
Then, as she is housebound, the inly way to take her out is using the wheelchair.
Weekend travel- often no trains.

@JacquesHarlow you have no idea.

OP, please don’t blame the car owners! Reductions in public transport over years led to a need for people to own cars as a safe way of getting to work. As a result, many people (myself included) simply can’t get to work without one. Earlier in my career, and when I worked closer to home (up to 15 miles away) I used to cycle to work (within the rules of the Highway Code!) It certainly kept me fit!

I HATE driving to and from work when there is only me in the car, and also hate that 95% of cars on my journey to work are in the same situation, but there isn’t anyone I can carpool with, so I’ve settled for only doing the journey twice a week…

The government hasn’t helped: by not improving the infrastructure and banning new modes of transport, either. If I were in charge, I would do the following in order…

1. Provide car parks at every motorway junction
2. Establish public transport links from and to every motorway junction on each motorway
3. Bring in small electric buses to get from each motorway junction to and from businesses that are out of town from each motorway junction
4. Ban the use of journeys by car if under 2 miles and car occupancy less than 75%, unless exempt by way of disability (temporary or permanent)
5. Implement a fee for driving on motorways with only one occupant of a car
6. Legalise electric stand up scooters, but license them, provide compulsory identification sashes readable by ANPR after a competency test is passed and establish scooter lanes
7. Resurrect the Cycling Proficiency scheme and stop allowing rogue road users to ride as if the law doesn’t apply to them
8. Reinvent the car to something smaller that can run on a restricted lane but is safer than a motorbike

I’m sure that there must be a solution out there somewhere, but while the government seem to think that simply charging people to use the roads is enough, I can’t see any evidence of those charges being used to improve the travel situation - instead it appears that the revenue collected from these schemes is just lining the pockets of those that run the schemes…

Lots of people simply can't afford to live in a place like that where there's a school within walking distance, workplaces within walking distances, on good bus routes etc. Such places are more expensive! With the way house prices are spiralling out of control, people have to live where they can afford to buy/rent a house, which often means few or no "walkable" amenities, poor public transport routes, no (or little) off street parking, etc.

I haven’t read the whole thread so this has probably been mentioned, but most modern housing estates do not plan for the number of cars which need to be parked there. Often you will see 4 bed houses with a drive for one car. That’s not enough for most 4 bed homes. Sometimes they will have a garage and a driveway in front of it and declare that as 2 parking spaces - yet most of the time you can’t fit the car in the garage, or if you can there isn’t enough room to open the door to get out.

A lot of terraced houses were built before cars existed and/or before they were cheap enough to be owned by most people, not just the rich.

Some people need a 4x4. I am one of those. I have a large pick up truck that I love to bits. It’s the second one I have had. The first I bought to tow my horse. The horse has now gone but I have classic cars that need towing around hence the need for a decent tow car still. I also live in an area that floods. When it does flood it’s usually just me who can get out of the village on my road. I’m not just talking about a bit of flooding here either - mine can only get out because it has a snorkel and a breather kit. Before that was fitted I couldn’t get out when it flooded. My neighbour is disabled so last time it flooded I was able to go out and get groceries for her.

I am quite capable of reversing it though 😉 including with the trailer on the back.

Having said that, because I have a lot of cars each car purchase has revolved around them. When I went to view my current house the estate agent tried to show me around the house first and I said that I wanted to look at the garage first as if that wasn’t right there would be no point in looking around the house.

All my cars though are contained on my property (or stored elsewhere in locked storage) so not in anyone else’s way but my own. I also have one sat in my dining room…..

They probably do but you can't exactly choose a house based on a position you may or may not be in in 18/20/25 years if you end up with kids at home and also owning cars.

I agree there are too many cars but I can't see a solution really.
Both parents usually work these days, and in my case I start very early and wouldn't want to get two buses at that time. My DH works in a rural.place that he needs a car to get to. Both have physically tiring jobs, so it's nice to get in my car at the end of my shift, just me and my radio.

So who in your view should go without car ownership?

The way you’ve written your thread sounds very much like “it’s ok for me to have a car because I have a drive” but everyone else who might need to park in the streets for various reasons shouldn’t have a car. If that’s what you’re saying then I’m afraid you’re extremely entitled.

I don’t think everyone should use a car, if you can walk you should. However I’m not going to dictate who can and can’t own a car because I’m just not that much of an arse 🤷🏻‍♀️

@JacquesHarlow when we lived in a Victorian house, semi with a narrow passageway between pairs of houses, the gap was originally to take the horse through to the stable at the back. The carriage was left at the front. In Fulham, I understand they used sometimes to take the horse through the house.

It would have been great if I'd been able to get my SMax down the passageway but sadly it wasn't quite wide enough.

Just to inform

This post seems likely to have originated from the office of Sadiq Khan, needs his funding.

more specifically, perchance?
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-mayor-does/mayor-and-his-team/seb-dance

eta; and omg he's a northener, the shame 🙈

I live in a non-London city and 99% of the time the public transport is great. There are a couple of places that are difficult to get to and we use a taxi for those. That's tricky when you have kids who need to be in car seats, absolutely, as it's impractical to use taxis in that circumstance, but honestly we rarely feel a car would be useful. We've looked into the costs and trains, buses and taxis work out cheaper.

So I do agree that a lot of people could happily do without cars, and it would be so much better for everyone if they did, but they're just too used to having one. I think once you have a car the idea of having to figure out bus schedules and so on, and journeys taking a bit longer, just feel like impossibly huge inconveniences. I'd love our town and city centres to be pedestrianised and walking or cycling to be more the norm for journeys under 3 miles or so (alongside decent public transport). I hate not being able to get a pram down the street because of all the parked cars on the pavements. I hate how huge and dangerous cars are nowadays - so many run the red light near our nursery. I hate that they've become the default for everything. And obviously the terrible environmental impact. My parents never drove and we cycled almost everywhere locally, and used trains or buses to go further afield. It was never a problem.

Having said that, when my husband and I lived in a smallish town it was hard. The bus service wasn't that reliable and we wouldn't have felt happy living there long term as a result. So I do also appreciate that in a lot of places a car is a necessity. Unfortunately it just feels like as the buses are used less and less, the services will continue getting worse. It's a vicious cycle.

Your comments relate to urban car use. there are real issues with rural isolation and lack of public transport that make urban and rural completely different. we have NO buses. the last one that went anywhere near where we live has just been cut. walking is not an option, we have no pavements, narrow roads with switch back bends. Only fit and healthy people can cycle. if you arent in this category then what are you supposed to do?

I choose to live where I do based on the fact that I need to have a car. when I am unable to drive I will either use taxis to get around or move into the nearest town.

Not having a car in a rural area is just not an option for most people most of the time.

Recommend you move to somewhere more rural…

I'd love to give up my car but public transport is woeful. In my city it's a complete joke. To get to my workplace for example:

15 mins walk to nearest bus stop
Bus may or may not turn up
Bus takes 45 minutes and takes convoluted route. There is rarely anywhere to sit and it's full of loud, smelly people.
From bus stop another 15 walk to work.
That's over an hour each way and no control over possible bus lateness or no shows
Expensive journey

Or

20 mins in comfortable car listening to my choice of music. Home much earlier for my family.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist OP. Public transport outside of the major cities is pathetic and mostly non existant. What we do have is over crowded and over priced.

TLDNR. But I agree re the stupid sizes!

It is more challenging in rural locations but there are likely to be more parking spaces rurally.

It is towns that are suffering from problem parking but there are train stations in towns, so no excuse!

An interesting point about a lot of women not liking reversing. I was actually thinking about this the other day. I'm working on a job where I sometimes have to drive large vehicles to another closeby site. There's a tiny little bridge on the way and if I try and cross at the same time as a car it literally leaves inches either side which is pretty stressful when the sun's in your eyes.

There's a corner approaching the bridge from the other side so it's impossible to see what's coming. I just have to wait for a gap to appear and go for it. Most cars will wait ten seconds for me to cross but a few times in the last week I've had one carry on driving onto the bridge. Every single time it has been another woman and every single time they've just stopped in panic and made me do the manoeuvring. It's so annoying! And we can't usually back up at this point because of other cars behind us both. I honestly think they just aren't paying attention and then go "oh crap, a big truck I'll just stop".

4x4s on city roads are a bit of a menance. They are unnecessary and need to be taxed off the road.

I think an effective ban rather than tax, if you tax them they will be even more of a status symbol and a lot of the people who can afford them can also afford the tax

This could be achieved by only allowing parking permits up to a certain size of car.

I agree with every sentiment you have, I'm surprised that its running at almost 50/50 on the poll as I expected it to be 90% against what you have said.

Car finances is a trick to keep the new car industry going - its clever