To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

[JacquesHarlow]

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

Ah but does it actually turn up every 2 hours. Our local bus runs every hour but they never arrive on time and then two turn up at once - I used to think this was a joke until it happened to me. I'm in the SE as well and the public transport is a bit rubbish down near me

In our little village car ownership is through the roof. So many houses have more cars than they can use and there are far more cars than there are owners.

I don't think making driving more expensive is a fair answer. Rather, owning excess vehicles should cost a premium.

I drive a ‘large’ car because I need it for work. My partner also needs a car for work. My teen son is learning to drive as he needs a car for work. It will be the same for my daughter in a couple of years. We live in a rural town with poor transport links. We can’t afford to move nor can my children afford to move out. Should we give up work and claim benefits in order to give up our cars? Should my children never be able to work as there are no local job opportunities. My son, for example, works long and, often, antisocial hours. Public transport is virtually impossible for him and taxi’s are financially out of reach.

But there really isn't plenty of public transport available.

Where I live a bus to the local town runs 3 times a day from my closest stop or ever 30 minutes from a stop 25 minutes walk away.

Once you are on the bus the route means it takes 35 minutes to get to town.

Alternatively I could jump in the car at anytime and be in town in 8-12 minutes.

1h vs 10 minutes (2h vs 20 if you include the return journey)

Trains are awful, to get anywhere useful is multiple changes and waits and costs a fortune.

That's the issue, until you can come up with a solution that makes travel close to as practical as a car you wont stop people driving.

With regards to size, I agree there are absolutely people who want a big car for prestige, the look etc but its not all the case, there are plenty who also need the size. I have a Skoda Estate, the boot is gigantic, however once you have 2 small kids, a pram and 2 dogs in the car you are absolutely rammed!

You cannot punish car ownership under the current structure. Millions of people wouldn’t be able to work. I live within 25 miles of two major cities. My husband works on the outskirts of one of those cities, I work between the two.

DH starts work at 8am, and would need to get two buses and walk 20 minutes over the course of 1h52m to get to his work, and then sit outside for 40 minutes waiting for the building to open. Or it’s a 45 minute drive.

I do get the train to one city, but until recently every other train was cancelled, the trains never ran on time and were standing room only for a 40 minute journey. Extremely unpleasant, but admittedly cheaper than parking. I still have to drive to the station though. Or it’s a 20 minute bus to then have to wait 25 mins for the train, as the train is once an hour and so is the bus and they don’t coincide nicely with timing. I could walk, but a 50 minute walk before a 40 minute packed and unreliable train journey just isn’t how anyone wants to start every morning.

The other (closer) city requires a bus and two trains to get to. And in September they’re not running any train at all between where I live and the city. Rail replacement only. No discounted tickets though, so it becomes 2 hours across 2 buses.

Not to mention the once hourly bus to the supermarket and nearest town makes that a hugely impractical way of doing anything.

And if I want to take the dog anywhere, it’s the bus drivers discretion whether it’s allowed to get on or not - so I can’t reliably assume that a bus trip to the vets is an option.

Outside of London public transport isn’t anywhere near good enough to disincentivise car ownership. Fix that, and we’d be one of the first houses to go down to one car (and maybe no car!).

I agree Op, and it’s not just Victorian terraces, I live in a suburban town with a HUGE amount of new build housing, most of it is on the edge of town. There are no new bus routes and as the new houses are town houses with tiny front yards, the on street parking is awful. And no, they haven’t made much effort to create cycle paths either

The whole things is a real mess tbh

My lovely neighbour has two adult DC at home; he also owns a dirty old van and a very large caravan so that’s his drive filled up so the DC’s cars and his car are all on the street. There is space but if he lived anywhere else he’d be very very unpopular!

Decades of lack of insight and investment in infrastructure has left the UK in a mess (while the fat cats got fatter).

Unless you are in a big city with excellent transport it is impossible not to have a car. It would take me > 2hrs to get to work which is a 35m drive away as public transport is ridiculously inadequate, expensive and not very pleasant either (especially in Scotland when weather isn't great - which can be most of the year round)

Parking facilities when I get there are also inadequate.

Places like Japan are much more tuned into their infrastructure.

The solution in the UK is to take the easy route and just hike up costs so for those who can no longer afford it there is no alternative, but they need a car to get to work, get kids to school, care for elderly parents, etc etc etc, Our governments have gotten away with so much incompetence for too long.

I understand in theory, but I don't think it's a good idea to police peoples decisions like that. In many places there are measures such as needing to apply for parking permits.
They might go on a lot of long drives, etc or they might be only soing the school run, but I dont thinknwe can dictate to people what car they need for their life.
If we were to dictate anything it should be that people in large houses when it occupied by only two people should be forced to sell and move to a 1 bed, for the greater good. This would also probably solve your issue of the family size cars outside small terraces.
I have a family sized house with a family in it, but most of the street is full of retired people in massive 4 and 5 bed detached with only them in it.
If we forced them to downsize, the property prices might come down enough for the families stuck in small terraces to move in and have a driveway for their family size cars.

First thing i would do is make school choice dependent on postcode. No ifs or buts. No choice. Your child goes to the nearest school. Eventually all the parents complaining would channel that noise into improving the school rather than trying to get a step ahead and driving DD/DS to school of their choice.

Then i would make ALL schools car free zones. Teachers car parks and visitors car parks but zero stopping otherwise. All surrounding roads within 1 mile double yellows with only permitted parking home owners (Heavily policed).

Hopefully this would make a huge impact on school traffic. There is nothing more entitled than school run parent. If its on the way to work, set off 45 mins earlier, park 1 mile from school and walk the children in then walk back to your car. Get rid of this need and you will improve schools, health, the roads and reduce the need for second cars. I remember when 1 car was a luxury. I remember walking 1 mile to school each way come rain, snow, wind or shine.

Then i would tax cars per mile. But i would also raise that tax within school and inner city areas. ALL cars should have one of those insurance black boxes by LAW. These would easily be able to calculate tax owed as they are just glorified GPS units. I would make it so expensive that you really would be looking at how to walk to school rather than drive. I would give businesses the ability to reclaim that tax so it didnt hurt them.

Then i would encourage the use of normal bikes, escooters & ebikes. It makes me so sad when i go to Austria, Madrid, France, Italy, Barcelona etc and see them all using these forms of transport. Pennies to charge and run. Their societies embracing clean transport that gives them safe travel with their car drivers aware that most of their own family travel in the same way so they are both courteous and considerate to these other road users. Unbelievably its also much much quicker to travel on escooters when more people use them.

Then i would put a weight tax on the cars alongside their emmissions. Light and clean free of charge. Heavy and dirty, taxed to the hilt. This gives scope for manufacturers to provide what the market dictates.

My partner used to drive a Fiat 500 (newer Model) for over a decade. We only changed it because it came to the point where we worried that if it was in a crash with anything other than another Fiat 500 it may result in death for the occupants. That car managed with 2 adults and 2 teenage children for years and years. The public in general do not need much bigger.

Born and bred Londoner - public transport viable in the Capital. However, now living elsewhere, there is no public transport, workplaces inaccessible without transport, shops inaccessible, medical inaccessible, children bused to schools miles away.... housing built in the middle of nowhere! No cars, no life! Transport and life needs to be planned, accessible, affordable and subsidised!

Here in Edinburgh they have a city car club scheme where cars are placed on many streets to hire, and you pay to hire them. Can do so per hour. I have friends who are more environmentally conscious than I am who use this as a means of not having a car but it isn’t cheap and makes just popping to the shops a hassle.

WTF has it got to do with you what car a person chooses? Do you have a problem with motobility cars?

And what about people who move places and then have their options changed on them?

Both of my DDs worked in the civil service as it was the main employer in our town. During Covid the office was closed and "centralised" over an hours drive away. To get there by public transport you'd need to get an unreliable bus for 50 minutes and then a bus or train for 30 or 15 minutes. If you finish later than 5.30 there are no buses so a car is essential.

We have 4 cars in our household (we're luckily to have off road parking for them all) and they're all essential for work or school, yet weren't when we moved here.

We're in a street with a school. It used to be primary and secondary campus. The secondary is now 5 miles away on a new campus. No school bus, just bus passes for the unreliable regular bus.

I didnt say you couldn't have a car.
I suggested 1 car per household and additional cars to be taxed.

Many of us don’t live in cities. I cannot get to work without my car because it’s a six mile walk, an hour and 45 minutes by public transport, too hilly and windy, so unsafe for cycling, takes me under 15 minutes by car (national speed limit for much of it) so we all have cars in our house, we work in different directions. Everyone pretty much has a car if of working age here

New builds with shit parking should be the first thing targeted if anything.

There is a new estate not far from here that has mostly 4 and 5 bed houses. Yet hardly any parking.

Young people are not able to move out for longer now so when building 4/5 bed houses it should be taken into considerable that many of the families living there with "kids" are likely to have kids old enough to drive

@Pistachioitaliano

so how can we get to work? There’s no efficient public transport here!

Tbf the price of second hand cars is through the roof the last few years. But yes traffic is unbelievable nowadays. It takes me an hour to do the nine mile drive home a lot of times. I can't use public transport though because I often have tools etc with me.

You said less need for a car if you wfh.
and that’s not always the case.

who would pay tax on a second car if it was a work vehicle?

What pisses me of is if i say I'm going to buy an artificial plant. Mumsnet go ape shit about the environment. But drive their cars everyday many with at least 2 cars in the family.

But I do agree public transport can be a bit shit. Lots of people think London has great transport. But it doesn't. If a few buses go in your direction and you can hop on any that's great . But if you only have a choice of one bus going to where you need to be they often skip a bus so you can wait 20+ min for that bus. Buses also stink . People smoke weed. Stink of stale cigarettes or sweed they are over crowded stuffy. Germ /bug breeding.

So I understand why people drive . I would if i could.

People no longer live within their means. This doesn't just apply to cars.

If you commute don't you factor that in when moving house. I.e live near a station

When moving don't people adsess the parking in their potential new home? Isn't it common sense.

I factored it in by knowing we have two cars! I expect most people already owned the cars before the house.

I’m in the NW and where I live there is a regular bus - to town
if you wanted to go to the doctors or Asda or Aldi or well anywhere else, you have to get the bus into town to the bus station (the opposite way to where you’re going) then back out again
i worked it out once and my work is about 5 miles away and it would take me something like 2hrs with 3 changes of bus plus a walk