To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

[JacquesHarlow]

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

Plus the cost! I wanted to get a train to Scotland. Time wise it was comparable, but it would have cost £600 to get the train.

My family have three cars. We do have parking for three cars but one tends to be on the road as you can't get the third off the drive if someone parks opposite. We all travel in different directions for work and public transport wouldn't get us there for a decent time.

All of our cars are owned outright and not particularly massive. The cost isn't huge per month (tax, fuel, insurance, etc), I personally wouldn't want a car on PCP.

The main problem is poor public transport. I'm getting a coach to Heathrow soon, it's about £45 return. That's fine as it's just me. I wouldn't be willing to pay that per person for a family of five.. They wouldn't fit in the car with luggage either so it would be a two car journey!

Please don't try and reduce my argument to absurdity. I have lived in a Victorian terrace and owned a car.

I just don't get why one house can then own five cars in that terrace.

And two of those cars can be giant SUVs which exponentially reduce the available space for those who do park.

I may have a driveway now, but I'm not pulling up the drawbridge on the argument. I still have friends in that street who I visit, and when I do, the parking is INSANE.

People are putting out cones to "protect" their parking, the house with 5 cars gets regular remonstrations and abuse (but they don't care)..

How much gaslighting am I going to get on this thread, or will anyone actually admit they know streets like this, and can see the problem?

There aren't trains or buses outside a handful of major cities?

What handful of major cities are you talking about?

So YOU have a car, but don’t think anyone else should.

Okay

Gotcha.

Ever thought of running for Reform? They’d love you there.

I don't really care who owns cars, but I do hate the way so many roads are clogged with parked cars that make navigating cities, towns & villages so difficult. I would fully support making paid parking permits mandatory for second, third vehicles etc - eg for every household wanting to park more than one car on a public road. First car is free, everything after that you pay for because you're inconveniencing literally every other road user who has to try and navigate around your parked car.

The flip side of that is of course that we'd need to implement practical solutions, like ensuring housing developments have a minimum of 2 off-road spaces per new build house, providing free public car parks for spaces where residents cannot access of road parking, ensuring public transport meets minimum resonable standards etc but sadly space and cost are the issues that mean it's not going to happen.

If you buy a house with no parking, you can’t get upset when there’s no parking. It’s not one space per house.

The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

Because 150 years ago people will have worked in whatever industry it was that most likely caused the houses to be built there.

People in my street will likely have been managers in the mine. People in the miners rows were miners. The mine is closed to everyone living in the houses previously owned by the mine work elsewhere and need to get there. Same with the others nearby who live in Gamekeepers cottage, Cooks cottage and Gardners cottage as none of them are lived in by staff of the 'big house'.

Where I spent some time growing up the houses were built because of the big factory. It's gone. There are more houses in its place, although the social club survives, and everyone has to travel elsewhere to work.

And public transport in many places is shit so people have to drive.

YABU as you are blaming people rather than recognising that it is a symptom of changing way of life in modern times.
Mothers work! Adult children who also work are still living at home. Often 4 or 5 working adults in a home. None of them work in same factory or even town. Public transport is rubbish. Many train stations have closed. Non existant in rural locations. Many schools have closed so not on doorstep anymore. Childminders often live in different towns and villages than the family.

I agree modern cars are too big but the parking and public transport infrastructure needs to improve so fining working people who don't have the power to change is not the answer

What’s your solution OP? Because you like driving. So it’s ok for you but not others.

Of course there are trains and buses, but not necessarily frequent enough, cheap enough, extensive enough, nor actually go to/from where some people want to go.

A bus stop outside your front door isn't much use if there are no Sunday services and the buses stop at 7pm in the evening!

Another thing that needs to happen is work vans sorry shouldn’t be allowed to be parked up on residential streets.

Some streets can look like dpd (other companies available) car parks at times.

In fact you’ve got super markets closing from 10pm who could rent out their empty spaces to these companies for van storage.

Parking restrictions for one resident car per household on road with visiting permits available and a couple of monitored visitor spaces.

The amount of houses here that have 2/3/4 work vehicles and then the same as personal cars even with driveways means there’s huge amounts of cars on the roads per house.

Why don’t you use public transport to visit your friend if the parking is tricky

Some people might not want to spend their money on a car, but it’s not easy to not drive. DH can’t drive due to a disability, and it limits jobs and where we can live because he needs public transport to any job, and from our house to shops etc. and this is often not great. It’s doable, but if he could drive we’d probably have two cars because it would make life easier.

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.
What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Rules for thee and not for me!

public transport isn’t great in a lot of areas, for instance I’m south east, now commuter belt for London. Our catchment school has no public transport (it’s 10 miles)
can’t get to the local hospital on public transport
can’t get to the local train station on public transport

we have no cycle routes.

we aren’t rural.

So there’s that, I know we aren’t unique by a long shot.

with both parents working, time is poor so they often have to drive the kids to school.

I do agree cars are too big (and heavy) now, but car seats, safety and two parents working so needing two family cars. This is the result.

also, men are just at shit at reversing as women - so that one is a really shit comment to make.

Yep, too many Chelsea tractors in the city. Unless you're a farmer or live on the tundra, you don't need one. Trust me, nobody's jealous because actually you just look like a prize prick squeezing through Victorian city streets or dropping little Ophelia off at school. To say nothing of headlights that are more suited to police search and rescue helicopters and do a fucking good job of terrifying oncoming drivers. I mean, what the actual fuck.

Give up you car and lead by example. I won't be giving my SUV and little mazda up, for you or anyone else. I have lived on those streets you talk about and of course thought wasn't put into future generations owning more than one vehicle. People still have a choice what car they drive and how much it costs them. So long as they drive within the law, they don't need to feel pressurised by the latest saviour rant from somebody trying to guilt trip other adults. Oh and as for the women not liking to reverse, I hope you aired your disapproval at women drivers being ridiculed on the why do people need big cars thread; those who struggle to park.

And the multiple cars per house is in massive part because the adult children who would have previously moved to accommodation associated with their work now live (subsidised miners cottage, nurses homes etc) at home longer and need to drive to work.

In England many people even need to drive their kids to school because of how allocations work - that wasn't something previously necessary.

What if you can't afford to buy a house with more parking? Not everyone has the means to buy a "perfect" house. Houses without parking are usually cheaper for that exact reason, so the people buying/renting them often don't have the luxury of being able to live somewhere else with more parking!

@JacquesHarlow do agree that people are getting increasingly larger vehicles for no logical reason. Eg the couple opposite me have 2 DC and a toy dog so you’d imagine a regular car would do but they both have identical large 4x4s. They’re quite inconsiderate with parking their huge vehicle also. They frequently park one outside their home and one on the drive rather than both on the driveway and moving as needed as the previous couple (and with smaller cars did) meaning that they permanently take up a large amount of road and kerb that they’re partially parked up on. This spot is directly opposite my driveway also and on a narrow road it makes it difficult for me to pull into my narrow driveway. Why they both needed two huge ones I’ll never know. They don’t have unusual hobbies or anything where loads of equipment or some such is required to be carried. They just go to work and come back!

Cars are ridiculous sizes now. I’m a fairly averaged height woman (5,8) and some cars I can’t see over. Crossing the road is so much more dangerous these days.

How cheap car ownership is.

should the poor have to walk home with their potatoes?
should the NMW carer have to walk from client to client?

im scared of the expense with electric cars. When a Vauxhall corsa costs 30k it’s going to be a problem for people. The driveless homes mean you can’t charge for cheap (or convenience) at home. So don’t worry op, the poor will be legislated out of driving soon enough.

She means the affordability because of monthly finance deals.

I agree with you about the size of cars. Totally out of control where I live. I don’t drive, and they make life harder for pedestrians. Because they are so large, the drivers often park partly on the pavement to reduce the risk of getting scrapped. Parking on the pavement is illegal where I live. Then it can be qui a pain to squeeze past on some narrow pavements. They're also harder to see over for pedestrians, making it less safe when crossing.

I laugh when I see two large cars meeting each other on narrow roads around here and a stand off ensues. I've noticed people reluctant to reverse in these large cars.

This is exactly what I think too.