To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

[JacquesHarlow]

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

I'm not talking about how often people use their cars, or which journeys are "essential".

I'm talking about whether the amount of cars that are parked up in suburban and urban streets, can be supported long-term.

And whether we should discourage through taxation or otherwise, the ownership of enormous 4x4s which spill over the marked parking bays in many residential streets in the UK.

If you don't get these points and don't understand them @C8H10N4O2 that's absolutely fine - please feel free to move on from this thread.

but this isn't meant to be a general debate about car ownership, which of course it has become by default.

Yes it is a problem. Many and multiple causes. The death of the high street in favour of out of town retail parks. Housing crisis. Planning laws. Expensive and unreliable public transport

You're right, @SusanChurchouse; I was focusing on the public transport because that's the one which enrages me affter choosing a home near buses only for them be scrapped, but the death of the high street in favour of outlying retail parks is definitely another factor

My own east midlands city is now home mainly to vape shops, charity shops and aggressive beggars ... even the market closed ... so it's no longer much use even if the transport existed

Not always conveniently though. I'm not working at the moment but when I was it took me 20 minutes to drive to work. If I'd used public transport it would have taken me over an hour. Where's the incentive in that? Over an hour stuck on a bus going all round the houses or 20 minutes in my car?

We're one of 'those' couples who have a car each and DH has an SUV (not 4x4 if that makes a difference) but for good reason, he can't get in and out of a lower car. He didn't want a car that size but needs must. I have a small car which I'm hanging on to as I will need to find a job soon and a lot of jobs I've seen so far around here say applicants need own transport due to location.

I remember the fuel strikes twenty years or so ago. As a public transport user it was a hoot listening to all the moaning, whingeing and panic from car drivers who didn't seem able to comprehend that it was possible to walk and take a bus to work - like I did, every day.

I'm with you on the massive cars. They are so anti social. And so much more likely to kill my kid if there was an accident.

My take is that more people are living in multi generation households as they cannot afford a home. But they can and need to run a car for work.

If public transport were quicker and more reliable I'd make more use of it. I learned to drive quite late on, I was 32 and only did it because relying on buses while carting a baby, buggy, and all the related paraphernalia, was becoming too much. A 45 minute bus journey to visit family became a 10 minute drive.

I can get a train to work in the same amount of time it takes to drive, but I don't know whether the train will be running any given day, or even if I get it to work if it'll still be running when it's time to come back home, and a return ticket costs more than the petrol.

As long as public transport is run for shareholders and not as a public service it will never be fit for purpose.

I hate how in the residential areas there aren't any streets where 2 cars fit the road and it's very stressful tucking in all the time. Honestly, a lot of the cars would fit their drives if they wanted. But it's easier to leave it. People also have too many cars when they don't need them (some do, some dont). But since public transportation is shit, it is so much easier to have several cars.

How would 1 car per household work when both parents need a car to get to work because the public transport links are so terrible?
if your entire post was about how public transport needs to improve massively so we can all rely less on our cars, I’d be more with you.

Not only multi generation but older DC, my DC both passed their driving test aged 17 and still lived at home, both needing cars to get to work/college.

There's also areas where multiple large housing developments are being built with little or no infrastructure in the way of transport links let alone schools, convenience shops, Dr's or dentists, for some a cars are essential.

Maybe for you!

As many people have said, car ownership has increased because more people are working further away from home, public transport to said workplace is non existent or hideously expensive, children living at home longer so they will also need a car to get to work meaning more cars in one household instead of less cars spread over more houses.

Cars are also bigger even when you discount the SUVs. Even a standard mini is a lot bigger than an old one used to be but nothing else has changed to accommodate this and it's getting harder to find older smaller cars that have the same safety rating, have space for car seats and are reliable and unlikely to break down.

It's not always as simple as "get a job/school closer to home or take public transport. A well paying career might be based in x area but housing costs aren't in your reach. You lose your job that's on your doorstep and just to keep a roof over your head you take one with an hour's drive.

When we were looking to buy we wanted to live closer to our workplaces but we couldn't get what we wanted for the money we had which meant moving somewhere else where we had to drive. My hours especially meant public transport just didn't run so even if I wanted to get the bus or something it wouldn't have been possible no matter where I lived since there was nothing surrounding it but a dual carriageway and a motorway. When I changed jobs to a different place on my doorstep my hours still meant driving was the safest option for a lone female as opposed to walking at midnight or later.

When I changed to school hours I still had to drive in order to get to work in time after dropping the kids off until I changed my hours and took a pay cut. Only possible because of the new hours suiting my workplace and being able to afford the drop in pay because my husband earns quite well.

That's just my example of why I needed a car to drive such short journeys, I'm certainly not unusual so it's no wonder there are more cars on the road.

I'm talking about whether the amount of cars that are parked up in suburban and urban streets, can be supported long-term.

As I've said in a previous post about unregistered traders, firstly the authorities should rid the streets of these traders and all unregistered, untaxed, non MOT'ed vehicles.

So only people who have driveways can have cars?!

I drive in London occasionally and driving down streets of Victorian terraces isn’t a problem, it just means occasionally reversing.

I’d be all for a ban on owning massive cars in the city though. I think v few people have 5 cars so I don’t think you need to worry about that.

This is true.

”Not all CPZs limit the number of permits per household. I would limit it to 2 per household MAXIMUM, with a tapering effect so by 2030 it is 1 car per household.

Increase the costs for permits so that serial multiple car owners have to really think whether they want to pay £3k a year to park 5 random old bangers on a street”

Are you aware of the existence of house shares? 🤔🤔

Public transport is so appalling even within cities that even though my kids go to school a couple of miles away, I have to take them because the bus, which is timetabled to be half hourly, regularly just doesn't turn up leaving my kids in the dark and cold. I can't get the bus to the station so also need to drive the couple of miles to park there. Husband's office is cross country so no public transport.

I think just our one family's story pretty much sums it up. There's no public transport to speak of, and that's in a major city in the south east.

I would like anyone with an SUV to have to take their test in one. Smaller cars would be chosen. I think size of cars is the greater issue than number, though if motoring laws and standards were adequate and enforced, you'd take about a quarter of all driving licences away so the number of cars would reduce.

I would love to get rid of my car and use public transport but it is very unreliable where I live, expensive and infrequent.

I've said it before, you're never going to get people out their cars until there is cheap, safe, reliable public transport. It's simple.

this still wouldn’t get me out of my car. I’ve done my years of public transport

This just pushes owners to park their non used vehicles out to other areas where permits aren't needed.

Edited to add...
Posted in reply to
@JacquesHarlow post

Also those living in bigger cities/towns need to remember not all public transport, mainly buses run until late in the evening in some areas, there are two bus companies that run buses where I used to live in the town and if they're short on drivers they'll just cancel certain routes without a thought for those that use/need the transport.

Where I live now there's 2 buses a day to run along side school pick up/drop off times.

We'll be sticking with the cars, at least until we relocate, and then we might try to manage with one if the local amenities two geriatrics need are within walking distance (which is what we're looking for). But for now we live in a small village with no shop and the nearest supermarket is four miles away; the other small town, where I prefer to shop, is seven miles in the other direction. There's rail service to the nearest biggish city from the village but the round trip costs more than petrol and parking while the bus service is limited and stops at about 6:00 pm.

Very interesting post fo a Monday lunchtime. Either the liquid lunch was too much OR you need a very large glass of vino 💕