AIBU to think there's an awful attitude on MN to cosmetic procedures?

[PeachSundae]

Morning all.
trying not to make this a taat. There is a current thread running about a woman who had 0.5 lip filler, and her husband isn't happy about it. The comments are filled with bitchy, nasty women tearing her down.
multiple women on here say that anyone with cosmetic procedures looks 'fake, like a blow up doll, like a prostitute, like a duck, trout pout' and the list goes on. The comments are abhorrent. Yes, there are some very bad / botched jobs out there. But so many posters say 'filler never looks good, you can always tell' etc etc. you wouldn't notice good filler, that's the point. You will evidently notice bad filler.

cosmetic prosecutes can be invaluable to people. I was diagnosed with an incurable cancer at 23, gruelling chemotherapy sapped every single bit of life out of my face. I aged overnight. I've had cosmetic work done to my face to try and get a bit of normality back, it's been a godsend for me. No amount of therapy or counselling would've done that. And some people don't want therapy or counselling! Some people aren't doing it to be vein, some are like me and doing it for my reasons. Also, so what if people are doing it for vanity! It's so nice to read the assumption that I look like a blow up doll, and that I look fake. Without even seeing my face and without knowing what I've been through.

AIBU to think this whole 'trout pout, every woman with filler looks like XYZ' is just horrible? The comments on the other thread are nothing short of bullying.

if you're one that judges so badly on what other people do, why? Why do you care? If you do judge, you are not on some sort of morale high ground because you're 'au natural.'

Perhaps get therapy then to work on why you feel the pressure. Rather than people telling others who have tweaks done, to get therapy.

But the only posts with attitude are coming from you op. Sarcastic replies to people who disagree, saying I am the one who decides when it is necessary etc. You don’t have a clear argument and your replies are immature.

Still interested in what ordinary people can do to defy the injectables industry.

My way is to not do injectables or any surgery. That's the only way to convince DD not to, in the future, when she begins to dread growing old.

I agree OP. The posters on that thread completely missed the point - the OP has a right to do whatever she wants to her own face.

FWIW, I’ve never had any cosmetic procedures done but if it makes you happy then you should crack on.

90% of women in the UK never have anything cosmetic done, so as you say just don't have them yourself if you don't agree with them.

Agreed, I've stopped following the AIBU topic and it's usually just a fight thread, with lots of pile-ons. I haven't seen the same negativity in the smaller topic threads. But AIBU threads still appear in the Trending section when I open up the site, and I can't help but click on them sometimes. I wish I knew how to hide them and only see my feed.

So why did you bother doing it if it’s not noticeable?

Because I was balancing out my lips. The bottom lip was barely there but I had a big top one.

And the change was a subtle change, noticeable to me.

I agree op, I think the judgement on here, towards people who do something that doesn’t affect anyone else in the slightest, is bizarre and hateful. And it’s not just cosmetic procedures, the thread on high heels was full of vitriol. Women were called “pathetic”, “desperate” and that particularly low comment “must be older” if they wore heels? It’s utterly ridiculous because it affects no one else?

I think you look stunning OP. Very fresh looking, pretty face

You have completely missed my point.

Women hating on other women appearances - nothing new there. They just get to say their inside thoughts out loud because it's behind a computer screen.

I actually think it gives you a pretty good barometer about what people real opinions are - all those unspoken things that only come out when a woman thinks they are safe and with another woman who they think has the same (usually hateful and judgemental in some way) opinion as they do.

Having recently lost a lot of weight - I have had a first hand insight into this phenomomen - and it's truly eye opening. Women at social gatherings who wouldn't normally talk to me now chat away like we are lifelong best friends - gently and very subtly ramping up comments about other women's appearances, but usually through disparaging remarks about themselves first, then testing the water with remarks about society in general (usually whilst looking at a particular other person in the room) - and I'm sure if I had not shut them down in someway by now, they would love to give me their real thoughts about other women in the room.

When I was fat - no one would ever really talk directly about weight in front of me - how I'm thinner all they ever want to talk about is weight.

Mostly I find it all just very sad. I am sad that women hate themselves so much. That we have created a society where the expectations on women's bodies are so multifaceted and superficial that we seem to spend so much of our time judging others by ridiculous standards that no sane person is ever going to meet.

At least here on Mumsnet you get to hear the unspoken thoughts so you can at least start to challenge and discuss them - so maybe it helps to shift things a little.

Changing people's opinions is hard - a lot of the time peoples real opinions are just 'not said' (see homophobia or racism) - at least here you get a chance to actually debate and discuss something.

There was no need for you to start this thread. Nobody has challenged you for having treatments done to your face, nobody has asked you to justify your actions or post a photo of yourself. What’s your point?

You have a lovely face. I wouldn’t know what procedures you have undergone it’s all very natural

I totally see your point about the rude comments, it’s just not necessary. Personally I’m really not keen on cosmetic procedures being viewed as “normal”. For me it’s a symptom and of the underlying attitude in society that a woman’s “worth” is highly dependent on her appearance. I teach at secondary level and it makes me so sad to see so many girls wearing full makeup and false lashes as standard every day of their lives, (less so in my new school which has much stricter rules thankfully). Fillers seem to be the next step after that, I hear women younger than me (nearly 50) talking about being overdue their next appointment and worrying about looking old. There never seems to be an issue with men looking old.

Terrifying. I wonder what the long term consequences are?

I completely agree with you. There was a thread a year or so ago when a woman wanted to use some of her inheritance for a breast reduction (she had extremely large breasts that were causing her pain) - so many women on here jumped on her saying she was selfish to spend the money on herself for a "boob job" and voted her unreasonable. I was absolutely astounded at the lack of understanding context and reasoning; so many have this black-and-white way of thinking that all cosmetic procedures = vain, selfish, anti-feminist, irresponsible, risky.

I myself have had chronic cystic acne since the age of 12 until my late 30s. I have extensive scarring that I recently started having cosmetic procedures for (laser, tixel, etc). I'm now in my late 40s and the dermatologist told me that now the only thing that will help reduce the appearance of the scarring is fillers, as it plumps out the skin and smooths the rolling scars that "resurfacing" treatments can't improve. Thanks to all the negative attitude about fillers, I don't dare tell anyone I'm considering it. I just can't bear the petty, judgement from people who have literally no idea what it's like to live with extensive facial scars and just hear "cosmetic fillers" - she must be vain and want to look like a porn star!

if you're one that judges so badly on what other people do, why? Why do you care? If you do judge, you are not on some sort of morale high ground because you love answering the door.

Well- stop judging eachother by appearance so harshly, for a start. Existing as a woman is a fine balancing act of meeting near unattainable beauty standards whilst maintaining an effortless façade. We need to be naturally beautiful (but not really of course, because we're still expected to remove our body hair and wear light makeup as a default) and if we try too hard we're plastic, trashy bimbos.

Yeah, there are beauty standards for men but they're not punished for deviating to nearly the same extent. Hell, they're celebrated- all this fuss about dad bods, when mum bods are the ones growing and birthing a whole entire human! Yet women are considered 'used' by society when they've had kids (not my opinion, I have nothing but admiration and respect for mums as a group but look at how single mums are treated in the dating world.)

I don't know the answer, but maybe if we didn't jump straight to insulting women that make different choices and instead looked to the context and reasoning behind those we'd all be a bit better and less bitter for it. Maybe we'd all start accepting our natural forms a little bit more and feel less inclined to alter ourselves, and these treatments and procedures would become less appealing and less women would choose to have them done.

0.5 filler does not result in big duck lips 🤣

Because, OP, individual decisions on mass have a wider societal impact. Surely you can understand that?

While I would never use insulting language to someone who has had fillers or other cosmetic procedures, I do think hugely negatively of it and for very valid reasons.

Cosmetic produces thrive on the ethos that people need to change their appearance to be beautiful, successful and happy. It elevates dissatisfaction with perfectly normal and healthy physical features and body structures. These negative ideas are constantly reinforced by social media and real life interactions and actively worsen mental health and body satisfaction, especially among young people. The erosion of individuality is one of the saddest thing.

I won’t go into all the other problems – health risks, financial burdens, accessibility … but they are all equally as valid.

Cosmetic procedures used in the case of correcting or treating other medical consequences (as you can argue yours was) are vanishingly minuscule compared to mass and casual use.

I’d advise that you take some time to evaluate the above and why you have been hoodwinked by the dangerous slogan ‘her body her choice’.

I agree. I think some people see it as try-hard, like you should just gracefully accept the ageing process. I’m going for my first procedures soon, I’ve picked a practitioner I’m very happy with but I’m still nervous as we have all seen the not so good aesthetic treatments. But good skincare will only get you so far, and I look in the mirror and want a little bit more.

I agree with you that it should never be acceptable to comment negatively on someone’s looks and with such vitriol.

I do wish we could have a more measured discussion about Botox and fillers without either “side” getting personally offended but it’s very difficult.

My issue is the normalisation of what ARE dangerous procedures. Just because they are common now, doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous. They are performed by people who should absolutely not be qualified to perform them. The majority of people I know who have had these procedures also really don’t know what they were getting themselves into. There’s so much misinformation out there and most people are getting their information from biased injectors.

Filler does not dissolve…it migrates. When using the hyaluronidaise solution to dissolve it 1) this is off label use and 2) it doesn’t just dissolve the filler it dissolves your natural collagen and hylauronic acid making you look much “worse” than if you’d never had the filler done.

Every single time you get Botox it should be done by a medical professional, not your eyebrow lady, and they should say to you - every time - are you aware that no matter the skill of the injector the toxin can spread from the injection site causing botulism? Do you know this can cause difficulty in swallowing and breathing and can lead to death? Other side effects include urinary incontinence, blindness, facial drooping etc. It doesn’t matter how many times you’ve had Botox previously this can happen at any time you get Botox.

They should make you aware that long term use of Botox causes muscle atrophy which makes your facial tissue thinner and therefore older looking than had you never had Botox. This atrophy can also result in your forehead being unable to hold up your eyebrows, more significant drooping of the jowls than would be otherwise expected etc.

Now the danger of this if you start getting Botox in your 20s? Huge. “Preventative Botox”? Nah. Fuck that.

That’s before we even get into any sort of conversation about the misogyny of it all. Not to mention that the box women are supposed to fit in is getting smaller and smaller. Not only are certain hairstyles, fashion, make up and body types in vogue but now certain lip shapes, cheek bones, jaw lines and noses. Turning us into the boring, homogeneous mass. It’s absurd. & don’t get me started on how this is eradicating many ethnic features from peoples faces.

I hope this is why most people “care about how people spend their money/about what women do to their own bodies”. I don’t care if someone looks like a prostitute or has a duck face. I do care about all the other things I mentioned.

@Didimum

yip

For goodness sake surely you know the difference between cosmetic procedures that are needed ie due to cancer, and for vanity. So you should know those threads are not aimed at you.

So I don't know what the point of this thread even is.