There's something racist about toilet provision in the UK.

[The13thFairy]

Am I being unreasonable to think there's something racist about 'oh, women and men can use the same toilets' here in the UK, when in developing countries and refugee camps, providing clean, safe and separate facilities for girls and women is seen to be of the utmost importance - because we know those foreign fellas will prey on them every chance they get; peeping, assaulting, you name it. Our British chaps, though, wouldn't say boo to a goose! Perfectly safe. Won't cause a moment's unease. Totally trustworthy, every man jack of them.

It’s not racist to have separate facilities for men and women.
Trans shite has its rancid tentacles everywhere.
Which is another reason why the Supreme Court decision is so important.

👏 👏

Women and children are already very vulnerable in camps.

Making sure you don't piss next to a bloke in the loo in M&S isn't the same.

Stop with the rage bait.

So why aren't Amnesty and various other similar aid organisations campaigning for mixed sex toilet cubicles with doors? Why do they know exactly what a woman is, and what dangers women face as a result of their biology, in India or sub-Saharan Africa, but here in the UK and Western Europe they think men can be women and women should be happy to share loos with men?

Amnesty applied to have their position on this heard as part of the the Supreme Court judgement between the Scottish Government and For WomenScotland. Amnesty and the Scottish government took the line that men who identify as women are women and should be allowed access to access women's single-sex spaces. The Supreme Court said no, 'sex' in the Equality Act 2010 clearly means biological sex and men can never be women.

We really ought to be asking what Amnesty has against women in the UK, that it refuses to acknowledge the risk of men in women's spaces. Decent men stay out so that the bad father actors stand out.

Voice of reason. I can’t get on board with the fuss about this. It’s not racist at all.
Im a woman, and I don’t use same sex toilets with fear. Actually, quite often the womens toilets have huge queues because females take forever and a lifetime to wee. If I know there is a cubicle in the blokes toilets, I’m going to use it.

Refugee camps generally see higher levels of crime, including sexual violence, because they house a mixture of people who are vulnerable, have experienced trauma, and have little left to lose. Not because of the demographic of who lives there.

Race has nothing to do with it, they would be dangerous in any country, and housing people from any culture/race/religion.

It's not racist to say that gender neutral toilets in a cinema or office in the UK are a better idea than gender neutral toilets in a refugee camp. It's just common sense.

It’s not the same; it’s totally different issue.

The fact that some people live in awful refugee camps does not mean women here have to share spaces with men. And TW are men.

Um, "British" isn't a race?

But what space are you sharing? The bit where you wash your hands. That's it. It's not like you have to sit on a long plank with holes in and have to see a willy as you squat, is it?

I just don't get all this. All we have to share in a gender neutral toilets is fucking wash basin and hand dryer.

Wow, you've managed to undermine racism, developing countries and refugees all at once. Well done! 👍 Feel free to go and live in a refugee camp if you feel they have it better than you.

Exactly, so why are amnesty international so invested in single sex spaces in the developing world? Surely creating mixed sex toilets would save money and space, freeing up resources for solving other problems. Instead of having to create two blocks, they could just build one.

Unisex facilities are not a good idea anywhere. Not for women

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

You'd have to ask them that. I might look on their website and see if they address that point, or if there's a message board to ask on.

Ooh yes, I’ll do that too. I’d love to hear their reasoning.

I’m all for calling out racism. But this isn’t it.

Isn’t it? Surely suggesting men of some cultures are more dangerous to women than men of other cultures is racism? Isn’t that one of the talking points Reform spew out? How is it ok for Amnesty International etc to imply that but Reform rightly get condemned for it?

I just don't get all this. All we have to share in a gender neutral toilets is fucking wash basin and hand dryer.

There speaks the voice of ignorant innocence. Or disingenuousness.

Many men get their kicks out of hearing women pee, intimidating women, seeing women vulnerable, rummaging for used sanpro in sanitary bins. Because toilets are relatively isolated places, men will lurk around or actively follow women into toilets to assault them. And that's not even mentioning their merely unpleasant toilet behaviours, such as peeing with the seat down, missing the toilet, not flushing, and leaving cubicle doors open while using them.

These are our lovely Western men. This is why I agree that it is racist to claim that 'brown' women need single-sex provision to protect them from 'brown' men, while claiming that 'white' women are not at risk from 'white' men. 'Brown' men are not more dangerous than 'white' men. 'White' men are just as bad as 'brown' men.

Misogyny is not racist.

I have just gone on there and searched for 'women's toilets' and haven't found anything about a specific campaign for single-sex toilets.

There's several articles about refugee camps which refer to overflowing toilets and women attacked whilst having to pee in a field, as well as one about women in camps being afraid to go to the toilet at night because they might be attacked on the way there, but nothing specifying creating single sex toilets.

I'd heard some years ago about a WHO campaign for toilets in general, and educating people on why they should use them where they are available on the grounds of health.

Have you any article links where it explicitly states Amnesty are campaigning for single sex toilets rather than simply toilets with lockable doors, or more toilets in people's own homes?
There was an article I saw in looking at the site just now about some women being attacked when they went to use a field because they hadn't a toilet at home.

You do realise that men and women are not given equality in other cultures right ?

Women are viewed as lesser and are seen as a man's possession in some cultures/countries. It's not too hard to see that some men from certain non westernised/non first world countries may not have the moral /societal barriers in place around rape.

Not all cultures abide by UK laws and values you know ?

But you carry on. Let's not let protecting women get in the way of potentially offending someone (usually a white UK born middle class woman on someone elses behalf)

Wondered when Reform would be introduced into the thread. 🥱

I'm sorry, what now?

Are you saying that men in UK culture always abide by the law and therefore UK women don't need protection from rape? Seriously?

Amd that it's only white middle class women's sensibilities that are in danger of getting hurt here? Christ on a bike 🤦‍♀️

No..... All women need protection from men in women's toilets. The quoted person had stated that other countries were being racist by segregating males from female toilets. I have no idea where race is even coming into it to be honest. It kind of reminds me of that old saying "and that's got what to do with the price of fish ?"

Do you mean the same people who are in support of seperate facilities for women from developing countries, because they see 'foreign' men as a danger to women, are also arguing we don't need them here, because British men are 'perfectly safe'? If that's the thinking then yes, that is racist, playing into ideas of civilised westerners and foreign 'savages', when it's being male that poses this risk regardless of nationality.

Ah okay, got it

Can we get something straight?

There is no such thing in UK law as 'gender neutral toiets'.

Unisex/mixed sex toilets by law must be individual enclosed single occupancy spaces opening out onto a concourse which means no external/additional door leading to an enclosed 'toilets' space/room. Those individual cubicles should contain a sink, sanitary bin and be enclosed from floor to ceiling on all sides. I've been to many restaurants and cafes that offer this and, other than piss on the seat/floor, are fine.

Toilets in public spaces (including work and schools) that do not meet these standards but have been designated 'gender neutral' (usually by no more than switching the sign on the door to the women's toilets are not compliant with the law.

No woman should ever find herself in a public toilet standing next to a man washing her hands at the sink.

The provision for single sex or legally compliant single sex toilets in the UK exists for everyone over the age of 8.