There's something racist about toilet provision in the UK.

[The13thFairy]

Am I being unreasonable to think there's something racist about 'oh, women and men can use the same toilets' here in the UK, when in developing countries and refugee camps, providing clean, safe and separate facilities for girls and women is seen to be of the utmost importance - because we know those foreign fellas will prey on them every chance they get; peeping, assaulting, you name it. Our British chaps, though, wouldn't say boo to a goose! Perfectly safe. Won't cause a moment's unease. Totally trustworthy, every man jack of them.

How many developing countries have you been to, OP? 😂

I’ve worked in a lot of so called ‘developing countries’ and toilet provision for women and girls can be shockingly poor in some places. It’s why menstruation is such an issue. Nowhere private for women and girls to change pads and sort themselves out. I used to live in a building that overlooked what we called ‘the pooing field’. Even morning as soon as it was light, all the women and girls would come out to go to the toilet in the field. Because it genuinely wasn’t safe to come out alone to do it at night.

Similarly, I once worked in an area where we had an outdoor toilet but after dark, it was a bucket in your bedroom. That wasn’t because anyone was racist and afraid of using a gender neutral toilet (it was in fact a communal gender neutral toilet 🤣), it was because the incidence of rape and gang kidnapping was so high that you didn’t go outside at night if you were a woman. Not even to the toilet block 30 feet across a yard from your door.

I use ‘gender neutral’ toilets all the time here in the UK. Yes, even with those scary trans people in them. 🙄 I walk outside at night in the dark alone all the time too. It’s a very different and much safer climate for women and girls here than in many places in the world, and I am very grateful for that.

Just because it’s ‘safer’ than the third world, doesn’t mean women should have to share a bathroom with a biological man. It doesn’t matter what you perceive the risk is.

Yes you're racist. How on earth you can shoehorn something that affects women as racist is mind boggling.

With that logic, surely it’s racist at against British women for not campaigning for them to have the same level of dignity that they campaign for women to have in India. I’d say it’s inconsistent. Hypocritical even. But not racist. They aren’t singling Indian men out for worse treatment because they are Indian. They are protecting the rights of Indian men and women to single sex spaces.

This is how I understand the op"s point, too. How can Amnesty claim that mixed sex toilets are safe here, but not in India? Are the men 'safer' here? Could they justify that stance without being racist?

It's not racist, no, but it is a weird double standard. But then so much about modern day left-liberal identity politics is about weird double standards, it's hard to know where to start. But let's start with 'Queers For Palestine.'

You get my drift.

Well the further explanation and @Annoyedone one it makes more sense what you mean. Sadly not many will do read updates.

They would most likely argue that it is because of high rape occurence backed up by stats for each country, not a race.
But then looking at rape stats per capita in similarly developed countries to UK (bearing in mind in 2/3 usually are also unreported and that carries accross that countries) they should argue for UK to have them separate too...

It’s not racism it’s just a fact that we are lucky enough to live in a country where the majority of our men are NOT predators who treat women like this and rape etc is not part of every day life for us thankfully.

do I want to share toilets with men though? No cause they are disgusting, piss everywhere leave the seat up and don’t wast their hands. It’s not being preyed on I fear

In the UK we're meant to subscribe to the luxury belief that misogyny and the second class status of women has been solved, and so women here who want spaces with no men in are nasty backwards dinosaurs being unkind to the poor vulnerable men who believe they are women.

In developing countries we're still allowed to know that woman are put in danger and excluded from public life by mixed sex facilities, because the biggest danger to women is men.

Woman in the UK are meant to go along with the pretence that we have equality between the sexes here. It's all misogyny, it just wears a different outfit in different countries.

Action Aid told me that they 'acknowledge that there is no such thing as a biological woman or a biological man'

WHAT…???!!!!!!

Can you provide a source, @The13thFairy - this is outrageous… I certainly wouldn’t give to them again if this is true.

The people campaigning for this believe TWAW and 'the only threat comes from men.' So there's no logical misstep for them.

Like @Annoyedone says, I've spotted this as underlying racism (xenophobia?) in Amnesty's policy before

Foreign men: scary, rapey, women should have single sex facilities
British/US men: all lovely, only a bigot would complain about mixed sex facilities, and who can tell who is a man or a woman anyway?

Maybe the overseas campaigning team is just run by slightly more pragmatic and less idealistic people.

I get what you mean op. Maybe racism isn’t quite the right word. Cognitive dissonance it is for sure.

i mean sadly we’re fighting for safe toilets just like in the third world.

Public toilets are a privilege

Some women of certain faiths more common in ethnic minorities can not be in enclosed spaces with men not related to them. More women of those faiths are required to be modest and will find being in enclosed spaces with men in a state of undress uncomfortable. Yes it is racist not to consider the feelings of women of faith when looking at toilet/ changing room provision. It's not a major part of the discussion as all women deserve privacy and dignity but if it affects women of some races more than others then it's racist not to consider the impact on them.

I wrote to them asking about single sex spaces for women and that was in their reply. I said they wouldn't be getting another penny from me. Their next letter informed me that when they said 'women' they included 'trans women' so I fixed that for them - when they said 'women' they included men. I repeated - not another penny. I can't show you the letter but I won't have been the only person here to have received one. If you send them money do some checking of your own.

Thank you!

If anyone at Action Aid actually said this (not that I don’t believe you) it just goes to show how utterly clueless so many people are about basic biology.

The biggest problem in the UK is a lack of toilet provisions, they just closed all the public toilets and we all just accepted it.

But you keep on with your race or man baiting I'm not really sure which it is you're aiming for here

You’d have to live under a rock to think India was safe for women. The sexual crime statistics are unbelievable there and bear in mind how much goes unreported. Women are absolutely less safe in India. It’s not racist to say that.

Well of course you have people who identify as the opposite sex to themselves in developing Countries. Why on Earth would it be rare?

Around 1.4 billion people have no access to a private toilet and around 2 billion have no access to clean water in their home. It's hardly the same fight. I think it's a bit disgusting to equate the two

https://www.actionaid.org.uk/about-us/our-commitment-trans-inclusion

Action Aid very much believe trans women are women.

Not rascit but definitely sexist there are never enough female loos anywhere, always queues but men's loo are free to walk in and out

@littleburn has anyone sent them the Trans male offending stats.

Incredible isn't it the most vulnerable women in the world still fall under men of any sort.