Reasonable or grabby neighbours?

[Housen]

There’s a no-man’s land back passage running behind three terrace houses (1,3,5). According to land registry this is owned by no one (unregistered land). We own no. 1 (recently bought) our neighbours own 3 and 5 (yes they own 2 houses!) they have one 15 yr old kid.

Neighbours have put a locked gate on the passage and claimed it as their own. They store their bins and bikes back there- including in the space behind our garden.
We asked if we could store our bins there too - there’s space for at least 2 more bins without blocking the way. (our garden is much smaller than theirs and we have three small kids, 1-5 years. the bins in our garden take up a load of space where we’d love to put a playhouse).

Neighbours have said no. They have said since they’ve been using this passage as theirs only for years (because they put a locked gate on it and our house was occupied by lodgers who never bothered to challenge this) , it’s now legally their property and we have no right of access and they are not willing to share.

Do we have any leg to stand on here? I’m guessing not, but thought I’d consult the collective wisdom of mumsnet..

We live in England.

Also AIBU for thinking our neighbours are absolute a*holes? We’ve had friendly relations until now.

I'm very surprised (maybe I shouldn't be!) that the legal conveyancing did not identify either a right of way or ownership of the strip at the back of your house. Did you merely assume it was for all three houses in the terrace? Never assume anything, but I'm not lecturing you just saying I would have thought a right of way would be obvious on the documents, or some other indication as to who owned the strip.

I'd go back to the solicitor handling your purchase for more information/confirmation. That is what searches are for. That would be my first step.

What did your solicitor find when he did the searches?

Was it open and listed as such when you viewed?

We did ask and our solicitors said that we could establish right of way by asking previous owners if they had used it. But the previous owners said they hadn’t because there was a lock on it 😭

You using it will foil their plans for a land grab, id imagine this is why they dont want you to use it too.

I'd do as someone else her did and ask to buy it and kick them off it.

Do you always crop out context? The neighbours are 'saying' it's legally theirs, that doesn't mean it is! How silly!

"...but true."

I'm sorry, but you really are mistaken here.

"Unregistered land is theirs by default."

No it isn't. It belongs to the person who owns it.

For example, there is quite a bit of unregistered farmland near where I live. A lot of it is owned (I believe) by different colleges from Cambridge University.

Definitely not the council.

If anyone, it likely belongs to the developer who built the houses. They would have sold off the houses but not the passageway at the back.
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"And the law on adverse possession has changed to protect property owners, so is not in their favour."

While this is true for registered land nothing has changed with unregistered land. You simply occupy the land as a squatter for 12 years and then it's yours.

Where things have changed is with registered land (which is something like 90% of all land in the UK). Here, there is a ten year time period and it is, as you say, a lot more difficult to obtain registered land by adverse possession.

I’d be wary of falling out with neighbours over a bit of land big enough for two bins, particularly if youre planning on living there a while - good neighbours are priceless. Careful what you wish for OP.

Can you put another lock next to their lock?

Yes do that and put your bins there. The land behind your garden doesn't belong to them

@Housen I would strongly recommend this. This is what I was saying on your other thread earlier when I was talking about rights of way and how long they've been used for.

After 12 continuous years they can claim possession, effectively squatters' rights.

You are right in the sense that I really don’t want to get into a legal dispute.

However, whether we pursue it or not, the way I feel right now these people are dead to me. Maybe I’m just emotional but I think they suck as neighbours and as people and certainly don’t intend to be exchanging any neighbourly favours in the future 😭. Luckily almost everyone else on our street is lovely.

That’s due to not having been sold since compulsory registration came in. The land will be in parcels (houses / fields etc). Paths are far more likely to be like verges or unadulterated roads. They are rights of way with public access. They can’t just be commandeered by someone. The OP’s neighbour has clearly heard about ‘squatters rights’ and thinks they can enclose a publicly accessible path that has utility value to their neighbour. They can’t.

You absolutely can and should challenged this. We have this a lot around where I live because a lot of the big houses have been subdivided and some have random plots of land here and there! Someone will own that land, even if it is council but your neighbours can’t just claim it. Definitely challenge it, they should have expected someone to do so when a new owner bought your house.

Thank you. There’s nothing in the deeds but I think you are right we need to contact a lawyer.

*unadopted
apologies. Multitasking and didn’t see the autocorrect

this is supposition for all of us. The OP will need to get to the bottom of it.

I had this with a rental property I owned. It turned out the council owned it.

So you bought the house, knowing that you probably couldn't have the right to access this land (what with there being a locked gate and your vendors saying they didn't access), and now you fancy keeping your bins out there? Have I misunderstood?

Try "driving" past the entrance on Google Streetview (the images are usually dated) and look down from the satellite images. The locked gate might be comparatively new.

For the sake of a few quid, buy some searches on your neighbours' properties. They might have a Deed of Easements attached.

Not registered doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong to anyone. It just means the land hasn’t been registered.

So it is possible it belongs to the council. Definitely get in touch with them to check.

A diagram would be ideal, because without it we can't tell if you have right of way or if they also have it. If the local authority confitm that you have right of way, then the Highways Authority can remove the padlock and gate for you. I do think buying the whole thing, or buying your part and boxing them in, should be the nicest outcome.

Yes and no. We knew when we bought it we might not be able to use the back passage and we were going to buy the house anyway. However before we exchanged we knocked on this neighbours door to ask about the locked gate and who owned the land. The wife was in and she was lovely and admitted they had put the gate and lock on it for “security” but that it was unregistered land and we’d be welcome to use it as well. However, her husband it turned out was not on the same page so now they are saying no. DH clearly in charge in that relationship!

Do you know how long that was for?

Using old google street view is a great idea. On your computer find the back passage access and select to see old dates. If the gate isn't there in under 12 years then you have proof.

We had a house with a passage like that it was not allowed to be blocked as it was a fire escape.

Unless they have submitted an application to Land Registry for possessory title, and it has been granted, the land is not theirs.

Perhaps you should submit a PT application for the bit of your land behind your property on the understanding that immediate neighbours can have a right to pass and re pass this land to get to their property.

Does it say anything about the rear passage way in your deeds?