Reasonable or grabby neighbours?

[Housen]

There’s a no-man’s land back passage running behind three terrace houses (1,3,5). According to land registry this is owned by no one (unregistered land). We own no. 1 (recently bought) our neighbours own 3 and 5 (yes they own 2 houses!) they have one 15 yr old kid.

Neighbours have put a locked gate on the passage and claimed it as their own. They store their bins and bikes back there- including in the space behind our garden.
We asked if we could store our bins there too - there’s space for at least 2 more bins without blocking the way. (our garden is much smaller than theirs and we have three small kids, 1-5 years. the bins in our garden take up a load of space where we’d love to put a playhouse).

Neighbours have said no. They have said since they’ve been using this passage as theirs only for years (because they put a locked gate on it and our house was occupied by lodgers who never bothered to challenge this) , it’s now legally their property and we have no right of access and they are not willing to share.

Do we have any leg to stand on here? I’m guessing not, but thought I’d consult the collective wisdom of mumsnet..

We live in England.

Also AIBU for thinking our neighbours are absolute a*holes? We’ve had friendly relations until now.

Let us know how you get on with the council

if it’s unregistered it will cost you about £300 in conveyancing fees to buy it. Check with council that they are willing sell it to you.

please buy it and present the evidence to CF neighbours. We are all willing you on!!

@Soonenough
Its 7 years

@Housen

We claimed adverse procession on a property.
We had it because the police put a lock on the door to stop burglars and gave us the key.
So the lock and access was legitimate and proveable

If your neighbours have erected a gate and locked it when there wasn’t one there before they are hiding what is essentially theft. They cannot hide it. It must be visible so people can be aware and object.

It’s like that guy who built a property without planning behind hay bails. He had to take it down partly because he hid the deception

You find out what your neighbours are like when you need them for something. I thought mine were nice. They've proved they're absolute assholes today.

Why wouldn’t they know?

Isn’t it possible to just look this up?

YABU @Housen because everyone knows in these situations we need a diagram to visualise 🤓

(But they sound like grabby CFs)

I would tell the neighbours you know the land is unregistered but that it's only fair that they use the parts directly behind their own property, and you have access and use to the part behind yours.

If you subtly explain you might need to involve the council I'm sure they'll relent. Rather than risk being barred from using the land at all.

IAAL (I am a lawyer) and surely there is something in the deeds about a right between the houses?

Better get a move on and get your claim in!

I've no idea of the process unfortunately.

Also, save your breath re the Council, they will give precisely zero fucks.

The solicitor who handled the purchase / your surveyor ought to have found out the truth about this, surely?

Speak to the council. Unregistered land is theirs by default. And the law on adverse possession has changed to protect property owners, so is not in their favour.

LOL.

100% not true.

Can you move your fence and take the land that is behind your garden?

Alternatively, can you buy the land?

clumsily written, perhaps, but true.

It’s possible but unlikely that a passage behind the properties is privately owned but not registered, but the description sounds more like a publicly accessible footpath that goes nowhere and is, like a verge, owned by the council by default.

Oh please buy it!

They need to approach the owner to buy the land, and they don't know who the owner is because it's unregistered.

They could move their fence in a sort of land grab, but that has its risks too.

It is highly likely that the access is there for the benefit of the homeowners (if it looks like what I think it does in my head). The titles of those properties ought to refer to a right of way over the land, if they don't, I would seek to register a caution over the accessway which tells people that whilst it's unregistered, there are people here with prescriptive (over time) easements over that land.

It would be best if you could find the deeds to the land and those deeds confirm the grant of easements to the homeowners, inc you. This grant of easement will come with covenants - i.e. not to obstruct the accessway and perhaps a joint duty to maintain.

Failing that, the easement is SURELY prescriptive by now (length of use) and I'd go down that road...ask a local solicitor to look into it for you. An actual solicitor, nothing less. Where are you based?

You are simply unable to assert that and in the example you give, likely still incorrect.

OP - are you able to provide a plan? One that wouldn't give away your address (so take out the title number and road names) but is the Land Registry filed plan (which isn't gospel, by the way, loads of people think it is, it isn't).

They don't own it. You have to apply to the Land Registry and prove exclusive use for 20 years in order to be granted ownership. Official process takes 2 years in my experience.

They are bluffing op.
You should stick your bins in there too and tell them its not their private land but unclaimed land. Do something now because in 20 years it may become their land if its not challenged by you
..

Only if the Crown want it though @Genevieva

7 years

We claimed on a house and it was ours within 6 months ( this was a few years back though )

lol!

At 15:22 @Housen wrote:
According to the land registry it is unregistered land- doesn’t legally belong to anyone.

As was mentioned before, this isn’t true. Not all legally owned land is noted on the Land Registry. See here, for instance. The deeds to the property will say who does.

In the ‘90s I had fun trying to sell my late father’s house, which he had bought about 30 years before. He had bought it before compulsory registration in his area, and lodged the deeds with the firm of solicitors who did the conveyancing.

Unfortunately, when it came to trying to sell, that firm said he had asked for the deeds and never returned them. I couldn’t find them anywhere among his carefully organised paperwork. It didn’t stop the sale, though. I just had to purchase some sort of policy or indemnity. Most of the houses on his small street were still being lived in my their original purchasers, so presumably none of those properties was on registered land.

Yes please OP!