Reasonable or grabby neighbours?

[Housen]

There’s a no-man’s land back passage running behind three terrace houses (1,3,5). According to land registry this is owned by no one (unregistered land). We own no. 1 (recently bought) our neighbours own 3 and 5 (yes they own 2 houses!) they have one 15 yr old kid.

Neighbours have put a locked gate on the passage and claimed it as their own. They store their bins and bikes back there- including in the space behind our garden.
We asked if we could store our bins there too - there’s space for at least 2 more bins without blocking the way. (our garden is much smaller than theirs and we have three small kids, 1-5 years. the bins in our garden take up a load of space where we’d love to put a playhouse).

Neighbours have said no. They have said since they’ve been using this passage as theirs only for years (because they put a locked gate on it and our house was occupied by lodgers who never bothered to challenge this) , it’s now legally their property and we have no right of access and they are not willing to share.

Do we have any leg to stand on here? I’m guessing not, but thought I’d consult the collective wisdom of mumsnet..

We live in England.

Also AIBU for thinking our neighbours are absolute a*holes? We’ve had friendly relations until now.

Ah this is brilliant. Very smart.

Seriously just Google adverse possession and see whether what they have done to claim ownership complies. If it does they are correct.

my first house had this set up with a strip of no man’s land
yes they can follow a process do a land grab and it would legally be there's

in answer to your question

if they’ve followed the correct process and done a land grab then it’s theres and it’s private you would be effectively putting your bins in there garden

if they haven’t then it’s no more there’s than yours and put your bins there

at a guess if they’ve grabbed it would show up on land registry you can order these online for a couple of £

It'll be faster if a councillor does it for you.

I think unfortunately it probably does comply, although I don’t know if they can prove how long they’ve exclusively been using the passage but they have owned both houses for more than 12 years,

This is happening in our street and a neighbour purchased some land. What she fails to recognise is that despite her owning it, we all still have a legal right of way over the land. Check with the council.

One of my neighbours sweet talked the legal dept at her work and they wrote a letter to the owner clarifying she can’t lock us all out. (The land in our case is the other end of the road to my house and of absolutely no use so I don’t actually care but I’m finding it interesting as an observer).

They haven’t formally grabbed it yet- although they have now stated their intention to. But we can’t put our bins there as they have put a lock on the only gated access. We could knock a hole in our back wall and access it that way but that would be very nuclear !

When did the lock go on? Just say you’ve accessed it previously. How can they prove you haven’t?

It’s been there since before we moved in unfortunately. There were lodgers living in our house previously and they didn’t care about anything

So is it a gated ginnel running between your house and their two?
If so, you would have had legal access to it as it was designed for the bikes and bins of all three properties, surely?

Honestly it is not formalised by sounds talking about it is not formalising it. Go jump that fence grab a selfie. Adverse possession is hard to come by and needs formalising via Land Register. 😉😁

Do your deeds say anything about access rights or right of way?

When son and wife bought a mid terrace with this it was an awful mess. So father and son armed with strimmers and brush cutters, cleared every inch. Found all sorts of rubbish behind each property, bricks etc. they organised a skip asking all the rest to clear the mess behind their own house. They did. By the time theyd finished it was a lovely empty space. Loads of room for all the bins.

I used to live in a terrace with a back gully along the back but everyone’s back garden had a door in leading to the passage and it was locked at the end where the passage met the street with a gate to which all owners had a key. Everyone used it for storing their bins and on bin day would move their bins out to the street through the locked gate at the end that led to the street rather than a garden.

Sounds like that was the intention of this gully (otherwise why would it be there!) and the council likely own the land and envisaged its use would be for bin storage.

I would definitely look into and fight this if for no other reason that who the fuck do they think they are dictating who does and doesn’t use unregistered land?!

Call customer services at the Land Registry, I'm sure they will help you with finding title to area , council as well.

Adverse possession, that was the term I was trying to remember.

its unregistered. The land registry will therefore have no record of it

Basically, unless they have it registered at the land registry or other proof of their title it is not theirs. If they have occupied it long enough (but agree it likes 20 years) they may be able to petition to claim the land but that is a process they don’t seem to have done. They are taking advantage.

Put your own gate up. Padlocked... If they are cfers they won't seek legal advice to have you remove it because they are cfers.... Play them at their own game. Put your bins there and a whole collection of second hand bikes...

...

Cut their lock. I would.

I thought the rules on adverse possession had been updated to make this much harder.

Do you have legal advice with your house insurance?

Its less than that. You used to be able to claim land was yours via adverse possession if you had occupied it for twelve years, and nobody had challenged ownership during that time. I believe the time was reduced to ten years. Check this out legally OP because if they have not treated it as their own for enough years and/or they have been challenged during that time, they probably cannot claim it is theirs.

They will need to prove sole use to apply for adverse pocession .
Its 10 years for property now but 7 years for land in this case

They need to show the land is open and they didn’t break in.
They need to prove they haven’t hidden their usage ( a gate could be an attempt at this if it’s a high gate )
They need to evidence both usage and maintenance during the 7 year period

plus
If you do find you have a right of way etc then you can of course object should they apply for adverse procession and they will not be given ownership.

It’s worth noting unless they have claimed adverse procession the property cannot be theirs and you can, therefore, use it. It’s not there’s to deny the access of others.

Id call land registry. Find out if there’s an owner ( there’s no need to mention the neighbour ) If there isn’t it’s regarded as crown land and I’d buy it.

If "unregistered" then adverse possession claim has not been formalised.

Adverse possession only applies if there was no permission to use the land for access/whatever.

SO if there was a right of way across it, or to use it for storage they had permission to use it... that means their adverse possession claim may not stand.