“Paedophile hunters”

[Yellowdaffodilss]

I remember quite a few years ago now, these paedophile hunter’s started appearing on social media. Videos of them meeting people who had been talking to what they believed were underage children. I remember thinking , oh wow they’re out there protecting our children. Maybe a naive view , I don’t know.

But now , more and more , I see it becoming a regular thing and I am seeing time and time again that the so called predators they catch ( not all the time, there are times that they are grown adults knowing what they’re doing ) are very clearly people with additional needs / autism. I find it disturbing to watch - I have seen young adults panicking and not really knowing what they’re doing or the implications . It’s clear that the messages in the videos I have seen are between the “ culprit” and an ‘underage child’ discussing meeting up , when yes they have been clear they are underage but it is also clear that it has not been sexual talk and these people are not understanding that what they are doing is wrong.

I remember years ago my sister and her friend talking to a lad of around 19. My sister and her friend were chatting and asking if the lad liked the friend and he was inviting them around to his house for a sleepover and to watch movies. ( my sister told my mom as she was worried ) I went through all the messages and could see it was not sexual . This lad thought they were friends . I looked at his profile and he was clearly autistic and his emotional and mental age was probably the same as my sister and her friend. I spoke to his mother who was so thankful that I messaged and confirmed he was quite severely autistic.

My son is autistic and always been drawn to girls as friends rather than boys . He also always gets on with those younger because he is on their level more. He wouldn’t even know how to talk sexually - he’s got a very limited understanding. I can’t stop him having a phone , he’s now 18 . Luckily I’m very aware and have spoken to him about this and keep tabs on him but it’s very hard. This kind of thing really worries me.

It makes me think whether these groups are doing more harm than good. They’re outing people publicly , and for those who are vulnerable with no understanding then it could do so much harm. I get that parents should be monitoring phone use but quite frankly not all parents do.

I do also wonder - can charges be made if there is no ‘real’ victim - it’s an adult they’re talking to … I guess it could get the culprits investigated more and maybe find out more things but other than that is it not just vigilante behaviour? And also , is their real good intention there from all of them or is it a case of getting social media famous ? Could it even be that they target those who they can see are more vulnerable as it will be an easy ‘catch’ ?

The "hunters" recently snagged one of our school teachers, by pretending to be a 14 year old girl. I was quite glad about that to be honest.

I feel the same.

op your example of the younger child wanting to see a movie and the ND person wanting a sleepover, does that seem fine to you?
Why suggest a sleepover after not even meeting the child? That is creepy as hell and there’s no excuse about being ND.

I've got to be honest; of all of the predator hunter videos I've seen, not all have been professional (as in how ove described the shaming videos and forcing the predators to dress up and say silly things) but all of them approached the predators with concrete evidence with chat logs that were not ambiguous that couldn't be argued with: as in the conversation between them and the child was undoubtedly sexual at least most of the time.
Of course one sexual comment is bad enough, but some predators claimed to be drunk or otherwise influenced by disability or they said that their phone had been stolen or taken by their friend. With that in mind, when that was blamed the hunters were able to prove that mostly with the content and consistency of the messages.
However; I have never myself seen a hunt where there was not enough evidence, but that's not to say it doesn't exist.
I would be surprised, personally of that was true because they would be made vulnerable to prosecution or arrest etc. by the police due to harassment.

Having special needs or autism shouldn't excuse an adult from the consequences of their behaviour. Generally these "paedophile hunters" confront the person with evidence that is hard to deny. And if they confront someone who is totally innocent then they can be prosecuted themselves.

I think you have this the wrong way round, @Totallytoti - and it was the child suggesting the sleepover and the young person/targetsuggesting the movie.

”The “child” had asked about a sleepover and the young person had suggested the cinema and talked about films to see. The hunters actually used this against him - the fact it was a child’s film he suggested - as though he was grooming the “child” when it was obvious to see that actually this young person probably really did want ti see this film as they were clearly emotionally and mentally younger.”

@ThejoyofNC - wondering this too. quite worrying

Are you a pdf file? Your comments are insane. The paedo hunters I have seen are respectful to whoever is in the house especially if it involves children or other family members being there. They are giving up there free time to get these beasts. Educate yourself

Sorry , I interpreted it wrong.

There are a lot though that have such a wide age range that I can understand why they may think it’s fine ( a friendship I’m talking about ) because they do it at their groups.

It took me a really long time to find my son’s current one and I have to travel really far a few times per week for it and a lot of other parents are in the same situation.

@Totallytoti yes it was the child ( that was a hunter ) that suggested a sleepover . Obviously baiting . The ND person suggested a movie .

Sorry but you sound like one of the knuckle headed idiots who support these twats and if anyone needs educating it’s you. They are glory hunters, not pedo hunters. They are anything but respectful and blasting the address and identity of innocent family members all over Facebook is totally irresponsible and dangerous.

If they are that dedicated to the cause why can’t they just hand over evidence to the police? Oh yeah cos then they wouldn’t get all the praise and Facebook likes.

Oh and they ‘give up their time’ because they clearly don’t have jobs or anything else better to do. There have been countless cases (some listed here) of times when they’ve got it wrong.

@shoelady2 knuckle dragging idiot 🤣 can assure you I am nothing of the sort. These 'idiots' you refer to are catching the beasts because the police can't be bothered!! they do indeed hand over information and have arrests. Again educate yourself

@OneFineDay13 and @shoelady2 - I suspect that you are both right, in some instances, and both wrong in others. Some of these paedophile hunters will be doing a serious, sensible, well thought out job, working with the police, and bearing in mind the families of their targets, and others will be thuggish glory seekers who just want a good video to put on social media to garner ‘likes’ and followers - and probably every degree in between.

Oh yes that’s exactly what they are doing. They’re definitely not hindering police through entrapment or endangering families or getting it wrong or in some cases being pedos themselves.

I bet you’re the first one on their posts commenting ‘thanx sooooo much huns you’re doin a gr8 job’.

The ones doing it properly will go under the radar because they aren’t plastering themselves over social media. No issue with that if they are genuinely helping and not getting in the way of actual police work. The Facebook glory hunters are scum of the earth.

Off the back of this thread I’ve watched a few more, this time on facebook

im not seeing anything like families being shamed or dragged in, it’s all been respectful. Also one of them said his own draught er had been groomed so this was his incentive to do this

I agree with OP, a lot of vulnerable people are set up. Someone befriends them.online, starts chatting, no.mention of age and then at them end says that they are 14 or something. The person is then filmed in front of their neighbours and loses everything. Absolutely awful.

How can families not be dragged in? Their husband/father/brother is all over social media. Thousands of people will see it and recognise them and the family then have to go face people often on the back of strangers commenting shit like ‘bet they knew what was going on’ or even attacking the house.

Yes this can happen when stories reach the press too but at least by that point all the facts and evidence have been collated. There are far too many cases of mistaken identity or things not being done properly.

Obviously it’s a highly emotive topic and I get that people want to help but vigilante justice is not the way. It can cause so many more problems.

Your missing out the vital bit….the sexualised bit that this ‘set up’ person will encourage…..exchange of photos….and on it goes

vulnerable?? It’s the kid being groomed that takes precedence over being vulnerable!

NC so this isn’t linked to my main username.

I’m a court journalist. Definite love hate relationship with them - on one hand a lot of the criminals coming through the courts for these offences have been caught by these groups.

But the fact they confront and video that in their “stings” rather than simply hand the evidence to police shows it’s more about their egos than protecting children.

A non-sexual chat is unlikely to be prosecuted and autism is no excuse for carrying out any crime. (Said as the parent of a medium-needs autistic child before anyone comes at me). Again a lack of capacity would be a factor considered in a decision on prosecution.

Also the offence is “attempting to communicate indecently with a child” - yes it’s an adult, but these offenders are clearly seeking out children and believe they are talking to children

And of course the offence can be clearly proven with chat files etc without the need to go mob handed to peoples doors or accost them in the street and broadcast it all over social media.

If anything with the increased resources required of the police to deal with the fall out from their social media video, they are actually taking officers away from dealing with crime.

Not sure what the situation is in England, but Scotland hears many cases with a judge (sheriff) only. The idea of being they are considered impossible to be influenced by unrelated facts

That was meant to quote someone who said they didn’t understand how there could be an offence without an actual victim (obviously it didn’t work)

Not overly impressed with the Scottish system from my experience. The Procurator Fiscal doesn't do a great job ensuring all facts are considered before charging, or indeed going to trial. So often even when charging at court, the sheriff is not in full awareness of the facts.

I think the CPS in England and Wales are a bit more selective in bringing cases with a reasonable chance of conviction.

Paedophile hunters also live in a world where they engage, disproportionately, with people who may abuse children.

Those I've worked with struggle to trust other adults and teach their children that unknown adults are not to be trusted. This can include new staff at school, health care professionals, little old ladies walking though the park who smile and say hello with no intentions of saying more.

It makes it really hard for their children to develop healthy boundaries, relationships and to access normal services.