“Paedophile hunters”

[Yellowdaffodilss]

I remember quite a few years ago now, these paedophile hunter’s started appearing on social media. Videos of them meeting people who had been talking to what they believed were underage children. I remember thinking , oh wow they’re out there protecting our children. Maybe a naive view , I don’t know.

But now , more and more , I see it becoming a regular thing and I am seeing time and time again that the so called predators they catch ( not all the time, there are times that they are grown adults knowing what they’re doing ) are very clearly people with additional needs / autism. I find it disturbing to watch - I have seen young adults panicking and not really knowing what they’re doing or the implications . It’s clear that the messages in the videos I have seen are between the “ culprit” and an ‘underage child’ discussing meeting up , when yes they have been clear they are underage but it is also clear that it has not been sexual talk and these people are not understanding that what they are doing is wrong.

I remember years ago my sister and her friend talking to a lad of around 19. My sister and her friend were chatting and asking if the lad liked the friend and he was inviting them around to his house for a sleepover and to watch movies. ( my sister told my mom as she was worried ) I went through all the messages and could see it was not sexual . This lad thought they were friends . I looked at his profile and he was clearly autistic and his emotional and mental age was probably the same as my sister and her friend. I spoke to his mother who was so thankful that I messaged and confirmed he was quite severely autistic.

My son is autistic and always been drawn to girls as friends rather than boys . He also always gets on with those younger because he is on their level more. He wouldn’t even know how to talk sexually - he’s got a very limited understanding. I can’t stop him having a phone , he’s now 18 . Luckily I’m very aware and have spoken to him about this and keep tabs on him but it’s very hard. This kind of thing really worries me.

It makes me think whether these groups are doing more harm than good. They’re outing people publicly , and for those who are vulnerable with no understanding then it could do so much harm. I get that parents should be monitoring phone use but quite frankly not all parents do.

I do also wonder - can charges be made if there is no ‘real’ victim - it’s an adult they’re talking to … I guess it could get the culprits investigated more and maybe find out more things but other than that is it not just vigilante behaviour? And also , is their real good intention there from all of them or is it a case of getting social media famous ? Could it even be that they target those who they can see are more vulnerable as it will be an easy ‘catch’ ?

FWIW I'm not in favour of vigilante groups - especially those who aim to "sort it out themselves" rather than sending their findings straight to the police - but I doubt that many sexual predators openly admit to what they've done as long as they can think of a get-out

It used to be "My computer's been hacked" or "I only downloaded it accidentally and wasn't really looking, honest", and maybe "I'm autistic" is just the latest version?

I totally agree with you OP,.an autistic person with sn may be 18 years old may have a mental age of 8, 10 or 12 and will not see anything wrong with being a friend with a child as they are on the same mental level. Nothing sexual implied.

I why do they stream it all over the internet then ? If they genuinely wanted to these paedophiles to be caught and punished for their crimes ,why are they jeopardizing any trial,that might take place?

There are many people with additional needs who are sex offenders - just like there are many neuro typical sex offenders

often people fail to adequately risk asses and struggle to believe that people with additional needs can offend and can be a great risk to children, especially when they lack empathy.

these offenders are far more likely to fall for the pedophile hunter traps and far more likely to take the risk in meeting them etc hence their over representation

I game online (in VR) and sometimes get into a good little game session with someone who is a teen, or even a pre-teen. Sometimes we have a nice chat about everyday stuff whilst playing.
I am in my 40s and autistic.
We often add each other on the platform to compare scores. Not keep in touch.

So what’s the answer when it comes to adults with conditions that may mean they don’t realise their actions could be considered inappropriate?

For me, if my hypothetical 10 year old was “friends” with a 34 year old online in any capacity, I don’t think I’d care what their apparent mental age was. Especially if there was any kind of inappropriate behaviour involved.
Parents should definitely be more involved in their kids online activity, and people with a mental age significantly lower than their chronological one need similar monitoring, I guess.

These groups also cause problems because:

1. They sometimes get it wrong. Not too long ago an innocent teenage lad got attacked by one of these groups and it was his dad who was the perpetrator. His family hadn't known, then they'd found out, and disowned him but his older teenage son was a "junior" and the shared name led to the lad who'd just had his world torn apart was attacked
2. It can compromise the police investigations if their evidence is gathered incorrectly and it can't be used to get a conviction so as a result some of them get away

So what’s the answer when it comes to adults with conditions that may mean they don’t realise their actions could be considered inappropriate?

Probably the same as it is now, @Kibble19 - pre-sentencing reports which will almost certainly identify issues such as this

They'll identify a lot of claims that someone "didn't understand" too of course, but we can only hope there are enough who can tell the difference between someone who's genuinely affected and who's not

Yep, I hope so too. I have a closer-than-average insight into courts (at least in my part of the UK) and whilst I don’t work in criminal justice myself, I do think that when psych reports are called for, 99% of the time the psychiatrist can see through any malingering.

It's 'reasonably believed' so if there is any evidence that they mentioned school/their age/were wearing uniform etc then that would constitute a crime.

With the online paedophile hunters, and with undercover police who do the same thing, it's always made very clear the (non-existent) child being contacted is under 16. The point of fakes like this is to catch someone who might otherwise harm a child before they actually harm one. To get the most severe sentences they have to make a plan to meet a child rather than just exchanging messages.

Although vigilantism is frowned upon, people who know what they're doing and how to get the right evidence for a rightful conviction can be of help to the police.

On the other hand, people taking the law into their own hands in a violent way or causing criminal damage to a paedophile's house for example, get no sympathy from me. There was a known paedophile in our town and his house constantly had its windows/doors smashed and graffiti scrawled on it. It was terrifying for the neighbours as they worried about someone setting fire to the place (terraced house). After he died the property maintenance people put up signs saying so and asking people to stop damaging the house, because they kept repairing windows only for them to be smashed again.

Exactly, I've heard quite a few of these cases and never heard of one where the fake child sent pictures. Usually the paedo sends pics and asks for pics from the 'child' who makes excuses.

@shoelady2you are right. It's hell for the family who have done nothing wrong. I've been there. As well as dealing with the enormity of what happened I had people messaging me, people saying I knew, my kids should be taken off me, I must be thick as shit to be married to someone like that. Someone I thought was a friend tagged me in the bloody video for all to see. My calls and visitors at work were screened for a while as I didn't feel safe (we have a very unusual surname and I was afraid someone might realize.) I was scared for my children having to go to school and potentially be bullied but luckily that didn't happen, possibly due to their ages at the time. But to be a teenager when everyone is on social media must be soul destroying. The only blessing is that the live stream did not occur at our home so people didn't attack the house. I really think it should be illegal to stream or report on these cases in any way which makes it possible to identify the family. I will not comment in public about the specifics of the case or its outcome but these clowns couldn't run a bath let alone a vigilante group.

My first concern is welfare of children not those talking inappropriately to them.

I’m all for this.

And the Police do it too now.

Autistic or not, they’re looking for children online and if this stops a single real
child being harmed, then its A good thing IMHO.