“Paedophile hunters”

[Yellowdaffodilss]

I remember quite a few years ago now, these paedophile hunter’s started appearing on social media. Videos of them meeting people who had been talking to what they believed were underage children. I remember thinking , oh wow they’re out there protecting our children. Maybe a naive view , I don’t know.

But now , more and more , I see it becoming a regular thing and I am seeing time and time again that the so called predators they catch ( not all the time, there are times that they are grown adults knowing what they’re doing ) are very clearly people with additional needs / autism. I find it disturbing to watch - I have seen young adults panicking and not really knowing what they’re doing or the implications . It’s clear that the messages in the videos I have seen are between the “ culprit” and an ‘underage child’ discussing meeting up , when yes they have been clear they are underage but it is also clear that it has not been sexual talk and these people are not understanding that what they are doing is wrong.

I remember years ago my sister and her friend talking to a lad of around 19. My sister and her friend were chatting and asking if the lad liked the friend and he was inviting them around to his house for a sleepover and to watch movies. ( my sister told my mom as she was worried ) I went through all the messages and could see it was not sexual . This lad thought they were friends . I looked at his profile and he was clearly autistic and his emotional and mental age was probably the same as my sister and her friend. I spoke to his mother who was so thankful that I messaged and confirmed he was quite severely autistic.

My son is autistic and always been drawn to girls as friends rather than boys . He also always gets on with those younger because he is on their level more. He wouldn’t even know how to talk sexually - he’s got a very limited understanding. I can’t stop him having a phone , he’s now 18 . Luckily I’m very aware and have spoken to him about this and keep tabs on him but it’s very hard. This kind of thing really worries me.

It makes me think whether these groups are doing more harm than good. They’re outing people publicly , and for those who are vulnerable with no understanding then it could do so much harm. I get that parents should be monitoring phone use but quite frankly not all parents do.

I do also wonder - can charges be made if there is no ‘real’ victim - it’s an adult they’re talking to … I guess it could get the culprits investigated more and maybe find out more things but other than that is it not just vigilante behaviour? And also , is their real good intention there from all of them or is it a case of getting social media famous ? Could it even be that they target those who they can see are more vulnerable as it will be an easy ‘catch’ ?

They don’t need to remove it but they can add restrictions on devices

Sadly in that case, while they are children and where parents have control, their access to the internet/social media must be severely restricted/monitored to protect them and others then.

@TheFormidableMrsCposts like this are infuriating. Not all autistic people behave like this and just accept what they’re told.

She’s talking rubbish and I can guarantee has met very few autistic folk in her life

Yes, I imagine you do and will need to prevent them from forming as friendships between 14 year olds and 10 years olds are not appropriate nor are 15 and 11 and 16 and 12. Not in real life nor online.

If your child has a camera phone and social media - WhatsApp, insta, snap, tik tok, fb, messenger etc etc they can be groomed or exploited online.
Controls around accessing adult material such as pornography or violent content via a search are also easily circumvented by young people who know waaay more than their parents - besides said material will be shared anyway through other means If a child wishes to see it - eg explicit videos sent as a message by WhatsApp.

Children who cannot keep themselves safe online simply must not be online and their access needs removing.

Sadly some parents appear more afraid of doing this and children kicking off, than of the risk to their child if they do not.
Mind baffling.

Sorry but there is absolutely no need for an adult, additional needs or not to be texting with and befriending children. I say this as someone who has a child with severe SEN and a husband with autism. Staying away from children is something I will always teach my DS as he gets older. He may relate with them more in his head but it doesn’t mean it’ll be okay for him to befriend them, and it’ll also save him from any allegations.

I will always teach my children to be kind but I absolutely would not be happy with them engaging in a friendship with any type of adult. People with additional needs can be predators too.

Goodness me!

Untrained hunters often have an eye for detail, for example looking at a person’s previous chat which potential pedo person will have usually forgotten about, however it will usually always expose them for being seedy, like admitting they visit sex clubs and brothels.

I’ve always felt really uncomfortable that so many autistism social groups lump teens and young adults together. There may be delays, but it sounds like a safeguarding nightmare. A 25 year old is still an adult even if their behaviour aligns with young teenagers.

The whole language around teens and young adults in autism and mental health care leaves me cold tbh, and leaves big gaps for safeguarding to be overlooked.

Thank you, We're looking in to it, it was the first thing my son asked. He's under 16 so needs the permission of that absolute disgusting thing or at least need to be able to prove that I've asked before I get a court order for a judge to over rule it, because no way will his sperms doner allow it he's a control freak and has no consideration for his son. The last thing I want to do is make contact of any kind with him or his family though or let him have an inclin of anything about my son. I have a solicitors appointment next week and will see what happens from there.

So because you know of 4 schools where the students are similar and able to have relationships then that means no autistic person of 25 can actually have the same cognitive abilities as someone who is 14 ? Really?

Yes I mentioned it. My son was in one, the age range was 13-25. We moved him to a 16+ that was much better and once he turned 18 there was an 18+ for him to kind of graduate too. It’s so much more appropriate.

Its difficult because in that wide age range there are so many who are so similar cognitively but realistically we have to teach our children - who won’t understand without teaching - that adult / child friendships aren’t appropriate so how can we allow them in a group ?

I totally get what you are saying - but do you think your DC would be able to just know that it’s inappropriate without you teaching him ? There are people out there who don’t have that guidance and those are the ones vulnerable to this

I saw one a few weeks ago where they were confronting this lad about planning to meet a 15 year old (their fake account) and the lad was only 14 himself! Told me everything I needed to know about those videos. Leave it to the police, if you have something they need to know about then tell them but don’t take it into your own hands and risk ruining the whole case.

Do you have evidence of that? From where? Can you give statistics?

But surely they would have asked this lad during the chat how old he was? I mean, I know paedophiles often lie about their age to snare kids, but surely if the lad was genuinely 14 it would have been pretty easy for the decoys to corroborate? I’ve never seen anyone they catch actually being a minor themselves so that’s a new one on me.

Yes, I get that if they’re actively seeking out kids to talk sexually with then obviously they would very likely understand what they were doing, but if they are mentally younger then it’s quite possible they have similar online hobbies to teenagers and just happen to make ‘’friends’’ that way which could then turn sexual down the line. I can see how those sorts of things can happen.

When I was about 13 I used to play a game where I met a 19 year old who was mentally around the same age. It never got sexual but it might have had I chatted to him long enough!

I have no idea what happened and how the mistake was made, the video I saw was posted on facebook as just a short clip of him claiming to be a child themselves, them arguing back, and him presenting some proof of his age. BIL watches a lot of these stings and says he’s seen it happen a few times where the “pedophile” ends up being underage themselves, it seems some of them don’t find out any background information once finding their target, they lay the bait and see who bites then just run with that.

Bloody hell, that’s terrible! The ones I’ve watched do seem to really do their homework on their subjects to be fair to them, I’ll give them that!

That's not what I said ,there are place s where autistic people can meet similarly aged,peers,similar cognitive abilities there is no reason for them to have a relationship with anyone undersge.

I agree.

I think there's something weird about the people who set these traps. Almost the same way that you have men who are closeted homosexuals in denial seeking out and attacking other gay men, what normal person pretends to be a child to draw someone into conversations like that?

However saying that, I think it's important to be careful not to assume that because someone is vulnerable in other ways that it means that they cannot be a predator or unsafe around children. I have worked with people with ASN for over 20 years in ASN schools and other specialised settings. I have worked with people who we have had to actively keep away from children due to predatory behaviour (there was one extreme example that comes to mind but I won't go into). There were also instances of sexually mature adults with learning difficulties. who befriended children but then tried to engage them in inappropriate or sexual activity. I don't believe that these adults were predators in the usual sense but their bodies were more advanced than their mind (for want of a better way of putting it) and they would have sexual urges they would want to explore, but as their 'friends' were younger than them and they didn't understand the boundaries, they behaved inappropriately with them.
This was a handful of cases out of the thousands of people with additional support needs that I've worked with over the years, but I think it's important that we don't just assume that because someone is vulnerable that their intentions will only ever be innocent and non-sexual.

I'm so sorry you went through this. This is exactly why I despise most of these groups. They give zero thought to the entirely innocent people dragged into this. I no longer work in a relevant area, but there's an organisation called Stop It Now which supports family members and can offer advise (they have a phone line I think, or used to) and signpost you towards things like counselling. Also if your son is in school do reach out to them - they will almost certainly be very very professional. If it's any 'consolation', these offences are so much more common than anyone realises. And the vast majority of people will realise it has nothing to do with you or your son. The handful who don't are just halfwits frankly.

Thank you so much, I had been looking for charities but kept hitting a wall. His school have been amazing with him, he struggles socially with his autism anyway and is always feeling embarrassed of himself even just for nothing literally just being who he is so it's extra difficult but I had to tell him before someone else told him because if he got wind of that in school I don't know how he'd have reacted. We got the call from social services the day after the arrest to inform us and when I said contact was minimum and he absolutely won't be seeing his family either as I don't trust them they offered early help which we have said yes to and the counselling in place amongst other things and for my son I can tell him a million times how it's not his fault and doesn't reflect who he is it doesn't register, but seeing professionals for example the early help worker in her lanyard he checked her ID and anything she says is gospel and I'm so glad he trusts her. I keep telling hom it's more common than we think and these people don't get locked up we walk past some, shop in the same shops as them, public transport and they don't have a sign above their head it will be mostly forgotten about soon and he seems to be coming around a bit now. Thank you again x