To wonder if there's any actual evidence that's trans women are not safe in male loos?

[Evedence]

I feel, as a FWR lurker, that I would have seen linked articles to bank up the fact that trans identifying men aren't safe in men's loos, and therefore that's the rational why women should budge up and accept trans identifying men in their spaces.

I'm pretty sure with a quick Google I could fund evident that trans identity men have made women's spaces unsafe (Kate delowski? The one who worked for a charity and made a masturbation video).

So AIBU to wonder what hard evidence there is?

@TheKeatingFiveas much as I love you I’m gonna have to turn the notifications off because I’m bored now. Have a lush night doing your thang. Stay safe

No more stupid comments and no actual argument.

Colour me surprised 😭

Look there's no good data because it's all self-reported nonsense.

Chances are transwomen probably wouldn't have a great time in a men's loo in a rough pub. But I think about it like this... men who were at risk in prisons from male violence; gay men, debtors, CS offenders, police officers, were put 'on rule' (43). Away from gen pop, but still in the male estate. Acknowledging that they were at perceived or actual risk, but not randomly putting them in the female estate because, reasons.

Third spaces mitigate the risk to vulnerable men, while protecting female spaces. Which I swear is what we've been talking about for YEARS now. And told we are bigots.

I remember a statistic that trans identifying males are less likely to get murdered than other males, not 4x more likely. They were statistically more likely to be murderers than be murdered themselves.

If they believe people who were born male are dangerous, then they should understand the some people born female may feel the same. If they genuinely just wanted to live their lives, they'd be willing to use a third space.

A question for anyone who thinks transwomen should use the women’s toilets: why do you think toilets are split by sex, and would you be happy if they weren’t separated at all?

Follow up: if you ask for a woman radiologist for an intimate procedure (eg mammogram), are you fine if that’s a transwoman?

I’d like to know more about this position please. Why would you feel more uncomfortable sharing with a transman over a transwoman? You must have some reason for that? Are transmen known to be particularly violent towards women?

I’m going to assume it’s based on looks, and transmen looking ‘manly’, but if that’s the basis wouldn’t a 6ft 2 male-born person wearing a dress still be more intimidating than a 5’3 female-born person with wispy facial hair ?

Or is there another factor that makes you more uncomfortable around transmen (actual women) than transwomen (actual men)?

What’s a cis man?

You know what it is. Don’t be disingenuous.

Trans women aren’t going to have Ben going into men’s toilets, until now, are they yhey have been in the woman’s toilets. So maybe no direct evidence yet.
but how often are camp or effeminate gay men mistreated in men’s toilets? All the time. So k can’t imagine trans women will care any better.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-68144562.amp

Story from the London paper Metro. This person was assaulted because his attackers thought he was gay, a gay male -- they called him a homophopic slur. Clearly he did not pass.
This again shows that it's the behaviour of men that needs to be changed so that male toilets are absolutely safe for all men, gay and trans included.
If this individual had gone into the women's bathroom he would have been noticed as a male intruder. But no-one involved in this highly one-sided story seems to have given any thought as to how women might have felt seeing a male in their space.
Looking at the photo I definitely see a young man.
Metro invites us to leave a comment below the piece. But somehow the comments section does not appear.

Right, so no evidence that transwomen actually are more at risk in men’s toilets but that male on male violence exists?

So what? Should we welcome effeminate gay men into the women’s toilets too then? Or, do you think maybe male on male violence is an issue that needs to be tackled by men without using women as human shields?

So men, treating other men badly, in men's spaces.

Naturally this needs to be addressed, but why on earth would it be women's problem to solve?

And why distinguish between trans identifying men and gay men then? If both sets are vulnerable? Should all be allowed in the women's toilets? And what about other vulnerable men? Disabled men? Older men? Do they all get let in?

To be fair, I don't think gay men have any interest in women.... I'm not saying they should be allowed into women's toilets, but gay men aren't predatory womanisers.

That's fairly irrelevant to whether they should have access to women's toilets.

As they are men, the answer is no. Same with all men.

Like I previously said, just use disabled.

Sorry, just clarfying that the person in question in my post above was called Cobalt, the story is the first one within the post I quoted,
'Cobalt was assaulted by a man' item in the Metro paper.

I would imagine openly camp gay people get assaulted in male toilets, too. So should they use female toilets to be safe?

Why does it have to be ‘assault’? I have been abused and intimidated by a male person with a transgender identity. Why should I have to potentially share a space that should be single sex with that male person ?

For all those people declaring that this group of male people should have access to female single sex spaces, what other vulnerable groups of male people should be allowed into female single sex spaces to protect them?

Why is this group considered for such special treatment?

Just because you, personally, cannot correctly identify the sex of a male person in real life doesn’t mean female people don’t have a high likelihood of correctly identifying the sex of a male person.

I’m so glad to see reasonable people in this thread. This is a topic no one can go against without being called all sorts of names, cos only one opinion matters eh?

Trans men should no be in women’s toilets. Trans women should not be in men’s toilets. The end. Biological male cosplaying as a female wants to use the women’s toilets to feel more comfortable (read: to aid their fantasy), so screw how women feel? It’s absolutely ridiculous. Why should I, as a woman and as a mother of 2 daughters, be made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe just so someone else doesn’t feel that way?

I don’t care how you choose to live your life, I really don’t because it doesn’t affect me but when it DOES start affecting me then I’m allowed to have a voice and not be dogpiled because of it.

Nah, only trans people are allowed a voice and their decisions trump all. Doesn’t matter how women feel anymore, it only matters that the trans female fantasy is maintained