Was I wrong to refuse sale at work urgent advice needed

[LemonBlueberryX]

So this morning at work (I work in retail - but not a supermarket, think along the lines of b&m), someone came in and tried to buy an item. I was working on the till. When they came to the till I felt frozen on what to do as I didn’t feel comfortable selling this item in these circumstances (based on a stereotype of what this person looked like). I asked for ID (it’s a look25 item) hoping they wouldn’t have it so I could refuse sale but they did. After that I felt I had to make a choice and so I refused sale. Because of things that have happened in my area recently I felt that by allowing this sale I would be personally contributing to bad things.

They kicked off and asked for the manager who came over and asked me why I refused the sale and I just froze and couldn’t answer. Manager took over the till and served the person. The rest of my shift went on as normal but Managers just whatsapped me an hour ago asking me to come in at 10 tomorrow for a chat. I don’t work saturdays so not usually in. What do I say?

I dont really want this getting back to my manager so have tried to be vague about said item

If there are any warnings, call ACAS for advice, because that appears disproportionate to me. 03001231100, advice is free and you do not need to be in a union to call.

It's a lot more rational to refuse the sale if a knife to such an 18 year old lad than it is to refuse the sale of wine to a mother with a young child, which Mumsnet posters have defended in the past.

The police seem to think that legally OP can use her own judgement, so I'm assuming she's in the clear here.

Based on what evidence? Op is perfectly entitled to refuse to sell a kitchen knife to a teenage boy. I hope your not implying racism especially when you have no idea of the ethnicity of the Op.

That advice and that wording is perfect. Use it @LemonBlueberryX along with showing the Essex police guidance.

In which case you would say “I just need to check something with my manager” - not refuse the sale and wait for the customer to demand to see the manager.

Tell your manager about your past experiences of knife crime and how it has impacted your mental health. The fact you froze when asked about why you wouldn’t sell the knife adds credence to your story.

Explain that you get a sixth sense for these things and that you don’t want to be held responsible for someone getting hurt.

Over a decade ago now, but I had to have my mum buy glue for me because I didn't have ID on me and credit cards weren't enough ID, but I was meeting her later that afternoon so she could collect it on her way. I didn't kick off, because I'm not aggressive. Buying a knife AND kicking off... well, I think we all know OP is correct that he didn't need to chop onions.

I'd be the same and worried rightly or wrongly. How many 18 years old's need to buy just one knife ? I think you share your concern but for your defence say you weren't sure on ID then your mind ran away with you and that's why you froze. If knife crime is a legitimate worry which sadly these days it is, I can fully imagine feeling the same. Which is just a sad indictment of where I feel society is at in some cases.

It was an 18 yo boy buying a single kitchen knife.

In that case, you're instincts were almost certainly correct. Unfortunately, the store probably won't support you because they'll take the view that its not their business to police these things. Their business is to sell stuff and ask no questions (other than for the ID).

Tin foil is for smoking. If you won't sell them it then they'll have to shoot up?! So you're doing the opposite of harm reduction.
And as if a junkie would go and buy a spoon from a shop to shoot up with?
Sounds ridiculous.

There have been 7 stabbings a couple of miles down the road form me in the last 2 weeks. One was fatal. I think unless you live in an area where it’s a problem then you have no idea. I can understand why you did not want to sell it if it’s rife in your area. I won’t go in to the city at the moment. Part of its the good weather, mates DS is a police officer and it is a common theme.

@spicemaiden ·

It sounds like you’ve discriminated on the basis of one of the protected characteristics.

Way to jump to conclusions. Your assumption is also rather racist in itself.

The male was white.

You obviously dont know what the spoon is used for....

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable and feel some people are giving a hard time on here!

If that knife would have been used immediately to injure someone, there would be a national outcry no doubt! “Why did someone sell a teenager a single knife, hardly going home to chop onions is he etc etc” you did what you thought was right, and you showed courage IMO, to challenge this when some would feel something wasn’t right, but wouldn’t feel able to challenge it.

What a load of patronising twaddle.

True but not everyone reacts perfectly inthe moment.

I'm willing to bet that ones sold as individual purchases to 18 year old boys smelling of weed who aren't buying anything else are vastly more likely to be used in a knife crime than ones sold to middle aged women who're also getting the week's shopping.

OP I think you were correct to refuse the sale. Various people have shown police guidelines on selling knives in these circumstances which includes refusing a sale to over 18s if you think it might be used for something illegal. Your shop absolutely should have training in place for this and they should have a policy.

I've worked in retail a really long time and can completely understand where you're coming from op. We often have to make snap decisions at the till and can get it wrong some times (i think you did the right thing but your manager obviously doesn't). My advice would be to explain everything you've said here. Hopefully your manager is reasonable and this is a first offence, you would just get a warning in our store

This is what I thought. I thought you could refuse a sale for any reason but once they've paid it's too late.
Mind you it's been a long time since I worked in retail so the rules may well be different.

No matter what the law or your store rules say, you were morally right to not want to be responsible for selling a teenager a kitchen knife. The fact that the manager took that responsibility instead of you, is OK, he is paid to take decisions.
The people who say you were judging on appearance are being ridiculous, how can one tell what kind of person will use a knife on someone else, apart from the fact that it will likely be a young man?

We are bombarded by news of gangs and stabbings, and questions of how we can stop it. Well this is how, by people taking responsibility. Better to offend one innocent young man, than enable knife crime. He will get over it I'm sure.

Well, I do beg your pardon I’m sure . Must feel fabulous to be perfect all the time and never get anything wrong!

I abhor shallow and racist stereotypes... but equally I have also lived in an area of London where knife crime is crazy and when you see a single 18 year old boy buying a single knife, you know it's only for 1 reason. They are most definitely not helping Mummy with the cooking or whipping up a nice three course meal on their own. It is also very very sad to see yet another body on the streets every day.

At least you can't be accused of being racist as he was white. Just say he smelt of weed/seemed high (if he actually did) and you thought the ID was fake (if it did indeed seem fake – not just your projection). You need to read thru store policy and, for the present and future such cases, see what basis for suspicion is allowed/reasonable.

You know nothing about drug taking, dealing and selling and transporting of drugs then. Lots of drug debts are 'solved' by a stabbing.

Presumably it was a kitchen knife , I'd the person showed you the correct ID and it was clearly not a fake then you couldn't not sell.it to him based on what he looked like. That is clear discrimination..
I understand your concern but lou can't be judge and jury and convict someone based on what they look like