Was I wrong to refuse sale at work urgent advice needed

[LemonBlueberryX]

So this morning at work (I work in retail - but not a supermarket, think along the lines of b&m), someone came in and tried to buy an item. I was working on the till. When they came to the till I felt frozen on what to do as I didn’t feel comfortable selling this item in these circumstances (based on a stereotype of what this person looked like). I asked for ID (it’s a look25 item) hoping they wouldn’t have it so I could refuse sale but they did. After that I felt I had to make a choice and so I refused sale. Because of things that have happened in my area recently I felt that by allowing this sale I would be personally contributing to bad things.

They kicked off and asked for the manager who came over and asked me why I refused the sale and I just froze and couldn’t answer. Manager took over the till and served the person. The rest of my shift went on as normal but Managers just whatsapped me an hour ago asking me to come in at 10 tomorrow for a chat. I don’t work saturdays so not usually in. What do I say?

I dont really want this getting back to my manager so have tried to be vague about said item

I'm entirely with you @LemonBlueberryX
You froze so it obviously affects you. Don't listen to all the mums out there having a go at you about stereotypes and discrimination. Shame on them! It could be their child he stabs, and then they'd be kicking off ❤️ I think you were brave to not want him to have it

No, it was clearly a direct response to the point you raised in your response to my post.

100% this. ^

I would go with the advice from arcticpandas op in that case and I’d be honest and say I had concerns about the item given this and the fact it was the only item being purchased. You were legally right to request ID and admit that you were hoping they didn’t have it due to your concerns. Wishing you luck!

This. I think it is reasonable to refuse the sale if you feel it could be used for something untoward.

Maybe it would be easier and safer for society in general if we banned all males under, say, 30 from ever going near a kitchen knife.

After all, nobody seems to believe that they would actually prepare food themselves, even as an adult.

We could bring them up from a young age to understand that cooking for them and all other men is strictly a woman's job...

In John Lewis you have to be much older than 18 to buy a knife. They are very strict

I remember buying a lottery ticket in a supermarket and my young son piped up 'buy that one Mummy' (he liked the picture) the staff then refused to serve me. I was very clearly over 18 (more like 40 plus back then). I kicked up a fuss but didn't ask to see a Manager and left without my instant scratch. I still think it's ridiculous. I've also got told off for letting my son scan alcohol on the self serve check outs, he loves doing it (not just alcohol). So, it seems it's very much a Nanny state.
However, OP. If the blokes ID was in order but you still had doubts, you were right to call for a Manager. I doubt you'll be in trouble, in fact, they need more staff like you, being cautious. Don't tell them about your own personal experience with knives etc, just say you had a funny feeling and doubted the ID so was being cautious. Also state that you thought it could have been a set up to test the companies policy on checking. They'll end up thanking you. Also, don't go in on a non working day, just say you have other commitments.

The obvious thing would have been to consult your manager before refusing the sale.

But they're on dubious ground if they refuse to sell you even one drink when you turn up sober, on the sole basis that 'they think you look like the kind of person who may be intending to get dangerously drunk'.

DS is 18 and does age check mystery shops, where he has to try to buy a restricted item and see if they ask for his ID. We've got a small collection of cheap kitchen knives, replacement blades, cheap lager, vapes, etc. He usually has to buy something else at the same time though, to try to make it look more natural. Sometimes the brief is to show his ID and make the purchase, sometimes not and see what they do. I've been surprised how many times he's been able to buy alcohol in supermarkets without being checked. So maybe you were being mystery shopped!

I can’t believe the hard time people are giving the OP. In different circumstances people are told that as a woman we need to trust our gut instincts (often referred to on MN as ‘spidey-senses’).

An 18y old buying a chopping board, washing up bowl & vegetable knife is going to give you a completely different vibe to one who hones straight into the knife section to buy the biggest one there. Especially if their clothes & attitude match what the OP recognises as typical of the local gang members.

Not sure where this leaves you at work @LemonBlueberryX . Maybe just admit that you felt something was off, possibly because of previous experience of friends getting stabbed. In fact it’s likely that you have some kind of PTSD from your experiences and the situation triggered it. Why don’t you suggest that in a similar situation you call your manager or someone senior to make the sale, rather than refusing outright.

If it helps OP, my 18 year old, who was in dorms at uni tried to buy a single kitchen chopping knife, to be used genuinely to prepare food. He was refused in 2 different shops even though he had ID.

He did not in any way take it personally. In fact he laughed about it with his mates, and laughed even more when they realised they had all had the same experience.

So it’s not uncommon for a knife sale to be refused.

If they really care so much about not enabling knives to get into the hands of somebody with criminal intent or potential, they could always just stop selling them completely.

After all, if you saw a woman in her 60s brandishing a knife in public - one that she could have quite easily bought from John Lewis without any difficulties - would you assume that she couldn't be any danger?

Or she could keep that JL-bought knife in her kitchen and her 20yo son could then take it and stab somebody with it.

jesus she works in home bargains not one of the fortune 500s

But what did he do after laughing about it? Did he just learn to live without the various kinds of food that he'd wanted to prepare, or did he ask you or another older person to buy him a knife?

Maybe the man in question here didn't readily have somebody older who could go and buy a knife for him; and even if he did, that's still a sharp knife that gets into the hands of an 18yo, if we're assuming ill intent, purely based on their age.

I've bought a single knife before.

this is from hertfordshire council but it covers whole of England

I would say this, you heard someone had to be 21 somewhere and got mixed up
I honestly wouldn't feel safe selling to an 18 yo either.

OP I am quoting this PP so you read the attached information. It says businesses should never sell if they have concerns about the intentions - use this to back yourself up.

You sound like you have integrity Op and a good instinct.
Wishing you all the luck tomorrow, stand your ground.
Your manager sounds like a wanker.

I have walked to our local homeware store with my student son and bought him a single knife for food prep before he went to uni. One of those nice ceramic ones that comes in a sheath. We also bought an all-purpose cutlery set online. But went into the shop to buy a single knife. It happens!

I also purchased a single steak knife for his birthday.

It happens!!

Honestly OP, I totally applaud you.
Your manager is an idiot.
My lad was refused knitting needles 😅

I don’t think anyone is suggesting 18 year olds shouldn’t be able to prepare food, just that knives shouldn’t be easy to get hold of, which is exactly why these regulations were introduced.

Haven't read all the posts so apologise if I missed something but OP I personally think you've done a great thing. From the 1st page of people saying youre wrong I disagree. If more people were like you maybe there would be less knife crime. You actually could have saved someone today. If the 18yr old was totally innocent he should have understood the situation and your reluctance to serve him.