Was I wrong to refuse sale at work urgent advice needed

[LemonBlueberryX]

So this morning at work (I work in retail - but not a supermarket, think along the lines of b&m), someone came in and tried to buy an item. I was working on the till. When they came to the till I felt frozen on what to do as I didn’t feel comfortable selling this item in these circumstances (based on a stereotype of what this person looked like). I asked for ID (it’s a look25 item) hoping they wouldn’t have it so I could refuse sale but they did. After that I felt I had to make a choice and so I refused sale. Because of things that have happened in my area recently I felt that by allowing this sale I would be personally contributing to bad things.

They kicked off and asked for the manager who came over and asked me why I refused the sale and I just froze and couldn’t answer. Manager took over the till and served the person. The rest of my shift went on as normal but Managers just whatsapped me an hour ago asking me to come in at 10 tomorrow for a chat. I don’t work saturdays so not usually in. What do I say?

I dont really want this getting back to my manager so have tried to be vague about said item

If he smelled of weed and you thought he may be high then I think that’s fair enough OP

OP - if knife crime truly is an issue where you live and work - challenge the policy.

Interesting that some people want to make it a race issue in some posts

My initial visualisation that came into my head was some jumpy, aggy young man with tats all over him, puffer jacket style. White. Yes a stereotype, yes often accurate.

Yes I know it’s very unlikely, that is literally what I am saying.

I agree that 18yo lads who cook need to buy utensils, but it’s also very unlikely that they will just go and purchase 1 single kitchen knife.

The most common scenario is that the lad in question trying to buy one from the OP’s work is wanting it as protection/a weapon.

??? So because he was refused a knife at the checkout, and he went off and ran over someone in his car......... that would be the OP's fault... for not selling him the knife...????? . Ooooooooooookaaaaaay. Gotcha!

OP please check your private messages

True story- worked in a shop. Young man (late twenties?) asked to borrow a pair of scissors to cut someone’s laces because they’d got tangled. (We sold shoes in the shop). I then saw he put the scissors under his coat. Fortunately I saw him and pretty sharpish asked for the scissors back. This was over ten years ago, and I’m still horrified by it, and what he intended with the scissors (stab someone?).

I don't have any

I really think your manager was shitty not to back you actually.
He threw you under the bus. He undermined you in front of a customer, humiliated you, and now is calling you in for a meeting because you exercised caution by not wanting to sell a knife to a teenage boy stinking of weed.

Absolutely agree, why would it matter what colour he was? Why are young men allowed to buy individual knives when in reality we know they aren’t chopping a bloody carrot!

Someone try and make it make sense 🤣🤣🤣

It's not really your call to make, by all means refer it to a manager but you're usually expected to 'obey all orders without question' in these jobs and they don't like it when you don't. It breaks the psychological employment contract.

Isn't there a moral responsibility?

Sorry OP, but no there isn’t

Without a genuine,specific reason to deny a purchase to this person based on credible evidence, the moral responsibility is to treat everyone as equal

You don't have to go in on your day off for a "chat".

"Dear X, unfortunately I am not able to attend the meeting tomorrow as Friday is my non-working day. I am happy to attend a meeting on a working day. Please forward me the agenda for this meeting as soon as you are able. I will require notice if I feel I need a Union rep to accompany me."

However, it sounds like you stereotyped this young man based on your own experiences and prejudices which is unprofessional, and you should expect to be told not to do this again.

Indeed - when does a plain old stereotype become 'lived experience'? OP didn't even know this man, so he wasn't actually part of her lived experience at all.

Supposing I had received a lot of calls from Indian scam call centres, could I refuse to employ/serve/treat with respect every Indian person I encounter, based on 'my lived experience'?

You were being unreasonable yes because you acted against the terms of your contract. You can’t just decide who you want to sell knives to, if they are legally of age and it is within shops policy then you should do it or get a new job if you disagree with it so much.

Also, it does sound like you are projecting a bit from your past experience. I’m so sorry you lost friends to knife crime, that is awful. But profiling people based on how they look what they wear and how they smell is not fair. He could’ve been using it for knife crime or his mum could’ve asked him to stop by and buy one. Or maybe, he wanted to buy it for himself to cook his own food. Point is you don’t know and it’s not your responsibility what he does with it, that’s on him.

Do you all live under a rock

There should be! Bar staff have a moral and legal responsibility to decide you’re too drunk to have another

Except that’s absolutely what the police want retail staff to do.

https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2024/april/officers-and-undercover-teenagers-purchase-knives-to-test-retailers/

No, him killing somebody with his car wouldn't have been OP's fault for not selling him a knife - but my point is that he could have done any number of things to hurt or kill somebody if he'd wanted - including by buying potentially deadly items at her till. All of us could, if we were so minded.

If she were genuinely concerned that this young man was a risk to others - based on her assumptions of his desired purchase - maybe she could have asked the store security to detain him and called the police - or is that tipping the principles of Minority Report just a little too far for comfort?

At any rate, if he had come to the till with a bottle of Schloer, a tin of beans and a washing line - all with the unlikely but potential criminal scenarios that I raised in his plans, do you think that OP would have questioned the sale for a moment?

If he'd stabbed and killed somebody with that broken bottle that OP merrily sold him, wouldn't OP still have that on her conscience?

Seriously, what? Did you mean to @ someone else, because I genuinely have no idea what you're on about.

I think you were right..if your manager sold it then at least it's on their conscience rather than yours.

You didn't feel comfortable, didn't feel they looked the correct age, had concerns about the ID.

In terms of the meeting I'd ask flag the latter two and request training for future situations.

If in any doubt you should refer up which is exactly what happened here.

I would try and keep calm and factual. Avoid saying things about feelings or your past, just that there were concerns about his behaviour, age and ID and so you sought managerial input.

I think every single time I’ve bought a kitchen knife it’s been purchased on its own. I go out to choose a knife, I don’t throw it in the trolley with tea-towels and a butter dish. So I find that particular reasoning to be really weak.

I don’t disagree that the most likely reason for the purchase was criminal. But if that’s the criteria for refusing service it effectively makes it impossible for 18yo lads to buy knives to cook with. And lads that are in a position where they are cooking for themselves like that are probably not flush with other opportunities or lots of resources to whether barriers being put in their way. A non zero number will also work in kitchens and need to provide knives for work, so this approach may hamper their employment too.

Again, not disagreeing that most likely it was wanted for criminal purposes, but the thinking still discriminates against people who are likely already in difficult situations. How do the 18yo lads who need knives for legitimate reasons buy them if their age and sex immediately lump them in the probably a criminal box?

I think it needs something more than age and sex to make that call. OP seems to have experience she can use to justify her refusal if she can articulate it well. And I hope she can do so for her manager.

Wrong. When I worked in a supermarket we were always told if we weren’t sure or didn’t feel comfortable with a sale of an age restricted item to call a manager.