Question about lethal injection

[Leafy3]

Grim subject, I know, but why is it seemingly so hard for prisons in the states to get it right? It's clearly an unpleasant way to go...Why don't they put the person under a general anaesthetic first?

We euthanise animals quickly & painlessly, why don't they (can't they?) use the same drugs on humans?

When it comes to child molesters and murderers, I genuinely don't understand how someone can call it barbaric.

they deserve to go. Waste of oxygen and the victims families will not feel this is barbaric.

child molesters and murderers deserve a slow and painful death.

I believe some people do not deserve to live, I also believe that doesn't give anyone permission to kill them

I totally agree with this. However, I don’t believe we should actively protect them from harm either, which is currently the case (at least where I am located, not in UK but I presume your system would be similar?).

Taking child sex offenders and murderers as an example, (where I’m located) they are put in a protected unit together. So, they can swap stories, get off on each others stories, and commiserate with other on the injustices done to them. I’d just stick them in with the general prison population and let them take their chances with prisoners already serving life sentences. That way they are dealt with but there is no active death penalty.

Miscarriages of justice happen even with child killers

If I were to be executed I'd ask for the guillotine, 100% effective and I think the quickest and most painless.

I take it you're new here ?

Great!

puts the staff at risk… I mean nobody ever really cares about that do they

When it comes to child molesters and murderers, I genuinely don't understand how someone can call it barbaric.

What do you call a justice system that executes innocent people ?

Stefan Kiszko was accused of being a child molesting murderer, tried, sentenced, jailed. Except he was innocent. His life was ruined. Are you OK with the idea of people like him being killed? For the hard of thinking at the back: If you have the death penalty in an imperfect legal system, innocent people will die.

This is more my feeling towards it. A quick painless death is more than some of these people deserve. Spending their lives with fellow messed up individuals never knowing when something might kick off, or getting a blade put in them is a better punishment.

Stefan Kiszko's case is horrific. The police and CPS knew from the off that it was impossible he was the attacker. However for reasons we see punctuating this thread, it was easier to thrown an innocent man in jail, than risk not "solving" the case.

I have no doubt whatsoever that had the death penalty existed then, Kiszko would have been hanged and possibly still waiting to be exonerated. As Peter Sullivan demonstrates, the legal system has very little interest in ever correcting it's mistakes.

Even if you are prepared to accept the occasional death of an innocent person (I guess in for a penny and all that) you need then accept that by the same fucking token, killers will be left free to continue to kill (as Mrs Christie discovered). So an notional "lives saved" by execution needs to be balanced with "lives lost due to mistaken executions".

Obviously as a deterrent, the death penalty is totally ineffective.

I keep on being drawn back to this depressing thread. The posters saying there is nothing between the death penalty-usually involving the most painful death possible- and letting criminals go. Posters saying a few miscarriages of justice are worth it. A poster saying anyone who has a more nuanced view must have a kink for criminals…. It’s just awful.

The posters saying there is nothing between the death penalty-usually involving the most painful death possible- and letting criminals go.

Performative ignorance

Exactly.

In the UK we have life sentences, and they mean life in the worst cases.

Here, if you rape and murder a child, you’re only coming out of prison in a coffin.

But the fact that we don’t kill
people means that if there’s later found to be a mistake, they can be released.

I don't think that's fair.

Some of them seem to be genuinely very ignorant.

I don't care how it's done or who it's done by. I'm sure there'd be plenty of volunteers and ideas on that.

RE: Wrongly convicted innocent prisoners - alot of prisoners seem to be on death row for quite some time. If there were appeals etc happening then this would likely draw it out. I didn't say they deserve a slow painful death right from the second they get sentenced just that people that are guilty of awful crimes do deserve it - in whatever time frame that may be.

Good point.

RE: Wrongly convicted innocent prisoners - alot of prisoners seem to be on death row for quite some time. If there were appeals etc happening then this would likely draw it out.

So you want to replace the uncertainty about getting compensation for a wrongly convicted person with the uncertainty of whether today will be the day they die ?

Never has the axiom that when you treat one person inhumanely, you treat all humankind inhumanely been so true as when society becomes a mob.

I don't care how it's done or who it's done by. I'm sure there'd be plenty of volunteers and ideas on that.

The only people who would want to volunteer for this sort of job are precisely the sort of people who shouldn't be allowed near it. The thought of leaving execution to people who would get a thrill out of it is really disgusting.

I’d just stick them in with the general prison population and let them take their chances with prisoners already serving life sentences. That way they are dealt with but there is no active death penalty.

So you would basically give a load of known thugs and killers carte blanche to kill their fellow-prisoners? What happens when the victim isn't a child killer but is just someone who happens to annoy them or who didn't want to pay them extortion money? What about the victims who are innocent of whatever they were accused of? Do you seriously believe they will stop at killing prisoners and won't also go for warders, prison visitors etc?

So you would basically give a load of known thugs and killers carte blanche to kill their fellow-prisoners? What happens when the victim isn't a child killer but is just someone who happens to annoy them or who didn't want to pay them extortion money? What about the victims who are innocent of whatever they were accused of? Do you seriously believe they will stop at killing prisoners and won't also go for warders, prison visitors etc

essentially, yes. Very happy to give thugs and killers carts blanche to kill each other. Couldn’t give a shit really. Maybe UK prisons are different to ours. Many years ago, we had a poor young guy who was in prison for not paying parking fines. Can’t recall whether he was bashed into a permanent vegetative state or killed, but point being it sparked massive prison reform here, where people like that are not put with the people who did that to him (lifer’s due to violent crime). In the main, they now keep low level offenders such as that guy together, white collar crime offenders together and all separated from violent offenders, so pretty much if those accused of violent crimes want to have a go and kill each other, I don’t have a high care factor. Couldn’t care less if some bikies in for killing rival bikies took out some child killers.

I don’t believe giving them ‘carte blanche’ to do this would endanger staff or prison visitors anymore than staff or visitors are endangered at present. There’s already lots of rival organised crime groups/rival gang/rival bikie related killing and violence in prisons (here anyway, maybe none in UK prisons?), and the prisoners manage to get on with that without running wild and killing staff and visitors so I don’t believe that would change if you added the protected populations (paedo’s, child killers/abusers) in with them.

In the UK we have life sentences, and they mean life in the worst cases
Here, if you rape and murder a child, you’re only coming out of prison in a coffin

Not if the parole board has its way, @OneAmusedShark, and certainly not in practice

It was they who declared Colin Pitchfork to be "no longer a risk to the public" and it's only because others kicked up a stink about his potential release that he's still in jail ... and this after him already having been released in 2021 and being recalled for breaching his licence conditions only weeks later

Se also Jon Venables who's been in and out of prison like a yoyo, David McGreavy who murdered not one but three children and is now out, Sarah Davey who was released and then recalled SEVEN times but seems to now be out permanently - though admittedly this one concerned an elderly lady - and doubtless others I could find if I had more time

And then some wonder why there are calls for the parole system to be scrapped completely

In prison it’s not a case of ‘seperate the violent offenders’…..if only it were that easy!!! What a simplistic view

you do realise when it all kicks off the staff are then duty bound to wade in and break it all up…don’t you??

’I don’t give a shit’ still apply when its staff being injured…again?!

you do realise when it all kicks off the staff are then duty bound to wade in and break it all up…don’t you??

Begs the question on how/why staff and visitors are not being injured currently when they are offing each other? So, what would be different?

My understanding is, they do try and put rival gang/crime family members in different facilities where possible but we only have so many prisons in a State/Territory so at times it’s unavoidable to put prisoners together they know will be a problem. Some kill each other, but there does not seem to be the problem you refer to. I’m guessing maybe staff are slow to ‘wade in’ or ‘don't realise until too late’ etc. No one in their right mind expects staff to die protecting murderer’s etc, and we don’t appear to have a public outcry when this happens.

the odd one gets killed, but that’s before staff get there!! Staff react whoever the prisoners are. There’s no choices involved so insinuating otherwise is just because you’ve watched too much prison drama on tv

you have no idea.

Public outcry? Prison service isn’t known as ‘the hidden service’ for nothing