Do I get this surgery done or do I cancel it due to work?

[sha160528]

Hi,

Ive had problems with my breathing since I was a teenager and after years of going back and forth with ENT consultants I’ve finally been referred for an op.

I’ve received the date for my operation and it’s in June. However, there’s a bit of an issue as I’m on a stage 2 at work for sickness (my daughter started nursery in September last year) Usually I get on with whatever illness she brings home and shared with us but on two occasions the bug absolutely wiped me out. The second time I was admitted to hospital with suspected sepsis. As a result of those two occasions of sickness I’m on a stage 2.

If I refuse the date for surgery then they’d need to take me off of their list and I’d have to go through the whole process of being referred by my GP etc again.

My union rep has advised that I take it off as AL but I’m worried that when I go back to work they’ll think I’ve been dishonest and I’ll get in trouble.

If I take it off as sick I’d be on a stage 3 which is more serious.

So if my husband chooses to do some building work during his annual leave, he will be disciplined by his employer?

This sounds to me like prejudiced ‘instruction’ from your manager. When I worked for the NHS I led a team and we did not have to take a planned operation as sickness. Clearly an operation is important so please don’t cancel. If it’s any consolation I had two employees who reached stage 3 (no more sickness in 3 months I think (sorry this was ages ago so can’t remember and Trusts may vary)). I’d like to see what she would do if the boot was on the other foot. I’d maybe ask to speak to HER manager or HR to clarify the situation (they will be aware of the earlier inappropriate behaviour and therefore hopefully understand the awkwardness between you) and let them know you have contacted the union also for advice. I’d like to think this can be resolved amicably with your company. It’s always been a difficult situation when some are rarely sick and others quite often (and some regrettably take the piss hence the policies) but it’s life. We can’t all be well all the time and those that take germs into a workplace are simply selfish in my view as this inevitably leads to more sickness !

@aster10
Building work on your own house? Why would he be disciplined by anyone for that?Taking annual leave to get jobs done in your house sounds like something most people take annual leave for?

Taking annual leave when you actually need surgery and will be incapacitated is different. What if OP’s employer suddenly needed to cancel the leave and get everyone back to work? it’s rare but legally they could do that. If she’s lied and is sick and unfit to come in then what will she do?

Im not just making random things up to annoy the OP I’m experienced in HR/management so know a bit about what I’m talking about and am trying to help

Find another job. Your management sound shit.

I work for the NHS and I am allowed special leave for medical appointments and operations as I’ve got a long term condition. I’ve triggered the sick leave Bradford Factor score countless times but can’t help it as I can’t help when I’m ill.

Can you speak to Occu Health about this if you have a health condition?

You can use your AL for whatever you like.
Have the surgery.

Of course not. Don’t be obtuse.

Can't imagine how bad a company has to be to put someone like the op in this position.

Telling people what they can and can't do on annual leave really is a special kind of bullshit.

If you take sick leave for planned surgery, it covers the whole period until you are fit to return to work. If you were to use annual leave, which I think is terrible advice, you would have a big problem if your recovery wasn't straightforward and you needed lots of time off. As I said earlier and as others have said, planned surgery is disregarded from the sickness policy in the public sector and that includes however much recovery time you need

Have the surgery and don't take AL, this is for your health and is totally valid - you can show them the appointment documents if they request it. I don't think legally they put you on a level 3 if its for an important surgery that will affect your life. You could sue them if they let you go after the surgery I bet!

Ask HR to confirm the policy on planned surgery. Say that you have been off sick, hospitalised for one of those and are concerned about your absence level and were willing to take AL for you long awaited surgery but have been told its out of policy.

If nothing else it gets the facts of your absences documented with them along with your keen desire to mitigate your sickness record.

Longer term, if the relationship is bad you may find better managers are available elsewhere. What industry are you in and what sort of level?

@TheSwarm I mean, the company don’t sound the best and I’m not saying I agree with it. But if the manager has said you can’t use annual leave to mask sickness and they aren’t a very supportive manager, then the union advising to just put it in as leave and not tell them about the sickness isn’t great advice if things don’t go to plan and the OP is found out.

But ibuilding work wouldn’t be rest and relaxation - the permitted goals of AL according to you

@aster10
You're being deliberately obtuse to be honest. I’ve explained why it is different and how an employer would think. Doesn’t mean I agree with it but I am trying to help the OP.

Actually, you are right, I thought it would be a family business with an outsider (OP), i.e. primitive capitalism, but you are right, this level of 'crazy' points to a public sector job. Apologies.

I am not being obtuse. I am just trying to show that the employer policing what we can and cannot do during an AL can lead to quite Orwellian situations.

"What if OP’s employer suddenly needed to cancel the leave and get everyone back to work? it’s rare but legally they could do that. If she’s lied and is sick and unfit to come in then what will she do?"

This was the only possible reason I could think of for not being allowed to have an operation during AL. However, what happens if you become ill once you are already on AL? I know that some people would transfer that to sick leave so that they can take more AL later, but not everyone would, particularly for a short illness that only takes you out of action for a day or two. I've never been told that's not allowed.

You can do whatever you want whilst your in annual leave. They can’t dictate what you can and can’t do in your free time. A reasonable manager would look at your sickness history and would think ok, rushed to hospital with suspected sepsis and now an actual surgery. I certainly wouldn’t count it, I’d make a note of it but it’s not like you are just off with a sniffle

It’s the potential use of AL to circumvent absence policies.
So if employee is using AL not sick leave to avoid triggering next stage that’s a potential issue.
Our system is if you are stage 1 then you have an agreed plan eg no more than x days off by y date or stage 2 will trigger. If you booked off leave when sick to avoid triggering stage 2 that would be against policy.

They can’t suddenly have people back at work they have to give notice so if OP books a week off work they need to give her a weeks notice that the holiday hours are cancelled

OP has a breathing problem. I would describe that as a chronic illness or condition.

OP definitely have the surgery. Look after your health.

I'd use annual leave and not mention it.

For context I work for the council … If I was to have to get re-referred it would take another 2-3 years again before I MIGHT even get my name down for the operation list and my breathing issues have gotten worse so I’ve booked the leave off and am hoping I recover within my A/L time

I’m baffled by the number of people saying surgery is not sickness. Unless it’s cosmetic surgery, all surgery will be medically needed.

Your health is your health. Sod work.

You can do whatever the hell you like during AL. I spend half my AL sick as my body just collapses with lurgie anytime I'm away from work (hospital)